9/13/67 FM's first show?

[Oona]

I obtained a download of this set the other day. According to the source, this was the first time the name "Fleewood Mac" would see the light of day. They were using the title "Peter Green's Fleetwood Mac" as one would expect. what I found most strange was that the bass player of credit on this set was Bob Brunning. So it seems that initially there was no "Mac" (or more acurately "Mc") in the band. I had ammumed, as most have, that John was always FM's bass man right from the start, hence the "Mac". As I found out more later, John was still reluctant to leave the Bluesbreakers when Mick was dismissed and stayed on until around November of '67 when he took his place that he would hold to this day. The band had already been booked by this name assuming he was to join in. I am not entirely sure of the truths of all this, so I am hoping that more senior members of the group would shed a bit of light on this.

There were quite a number of amazing acts that day......(the) Cream, (the) Pink Floyd, Mayall, Pentangle, Crazy world of Aurthur Brown, interestingly also a band called Chicken Shack......hmmmmm.....once again, I call on more seasoned veterans of FM lore who might know if this was the first meeting of Christine and John or not.

[bretonbanquet]

I think I can help a little bit - Green / Fleetwood / McVie had already recorded the instrumental 'Fleetwood Mac', 'First Train Home', 'No Place To Go' and 'Looking For Somebody' on April 19th 1967. At that time they were members of John Mayall's Bluesbreakers and the band Fleetwood Mac hadn't been formed yet other than in Peter Green's mind. Green named his instrumental after Fleetwood and McVie, but clearly he thought it would be a great name for the band he was certain he would form with that rhythm section!

Green left the Bluesbreakers in May '67 and formed Fleetwood Mac with Fleetwood, Spencer and Brunning, since McVie was happier earning a good wage with Mayall. McVie joined later after much coaxing from Green - either late September or October '67 (not sure exactly when - someone here will surely know!) John was getting tired of Mayall's "f**kin' jazz" leanings anyway, and the rest is history!

Mac recorded 'Rambling Pony', 'Long Grey Mare', 'Rambling Pony #2' and 'I Believe My Time Ain't Long' in early September 1967 with Bob Brunning,

I think the concert often called "Live in London" or (erroneously) "Live '68" was recorded on 13th September 1967, definitely with Bob Brunning. I have read it described as 'the Peter Green's Fleetwood Mac official debut', so the concert you have is probably that one. How many 'unofficial' gigs they did before then is anyone's guess :confused:

[GateandGarden]

Mac recorded... 'Long Grey Mare', ...in early September 1967 with Bob Brunning, Ooooooooooh! Sorry that this is irrelevant to the original intent of the thread (as if wandering is uncommon here :laugh: ), but I just had to say woohoo "Long Grey Mare" is such a fun song! :blob1: :woohoo: :laugh:

I'll stop now. :o

[bretonbanquet]

Ooooooooooh! Sorry that this is irrelevant to the original intent of the thread (as if wandering is uncommon here :laugh: ), but I just had to say woohoo "Long Grey Mare" is such a fun song! :blob1: :woohoo: :laugh:

I'll stop now. :o


Nooo, carry on :]

'Long Grey Mare' is a great song - Bob Brunning's finest hour :p

[GateandGarden]

Nooo, carry on :]

'Long Grey Mare' is a great song - Bob Brunning's finest hour :pI like how blatantly sexual it is. :woohoo:

[bretonbanquet]

I like how blatantly sexual it is. :woohoo:


Peter used to do 'blatantly sexual' pretty well and often :blob1: Like Lazy Poker Blues - how cool is that song :nod: And 'Lemon Squeezer' off Shrine '69 is just rude :laugh:

[Wouter Vuijk]

I think the concert often called "Live in London" or (erroneously) "Live '68" was recorded on 13th September 1967, definitely with Bob Brunning. I have read it described as 'the Peter Green's Fleetwood Mac official debut', so the concert you have is probably that one. How many 'unofficial' gigs they did before then is anyone's guess :confused:

Taken from the Chrome Oxford Music Collectors Page:

PERSONNEL: September 1967 - August 14, 1968
Peter Green - vocals, guitar, harmonica
Jeremy Spencer - vocal, guitar
John McVie - bass
Mick Fleetwood - drums

LIVE SHOW: April 27, 1968 Main Extension Building of Polytechnic of Central London
Got To Move
I Held My Baby Last Night
My Baby's Sweet
My Baby's A Good 'Un
Don't Know Which Way To Go
Buzz Me
The Dream
The World Keep On Turning
How Blue Can You Get
Bleeding Heart

[bretonbanquet]

The concert I'm thinking of is sometimes called 'Live At The Marquee' and included:

Talk To Me Baby
I Held My Baby Last Night
My Baby's Sweet
Looking For Somebody
Evil Woman Blues
Got To Move
No Place To Go
Watch Out
Mighty Long Time
Dust My Blues
I Need You Come On Home
Shake Your Money Maker

This was 13th Sep, '67, no? You're right though - "Live '68" is different now I've checked, it's the gig with the setlist you mentioned :)

[Wouter Vuijk]

I think the concert often called "Live in London" or (erroneously) "Live '68" was recorded on 13th September 1967, definitely with Bob Brunning. I have read it described as 'the Peter Green's Fleetwood Mac official debut', so the concert you have is probably that one. How many 'unofficial' gigs they did before then is anyone's guess :confused:

Taken from the Chrome Oxide Music Collectors Page (http://www.chromeoxide.com/green.htm):

PERSONNEL: September 1967 - August 14, 1968
Peter Green - vocals, guitar, harmonica
Jeremy Spencer - vocal, guitar
John McVie - bass
Mick Fleetwood - drums

LIVE SHOW: April 27, 1968
Main Extension Building of Polytechnic of Central London
Got To Move
I Held My Baby Last Night
My Baby's Sweet
My Baby's A Good 'Un
Don't Know Which Way To Go
Buzz Me
The Dream
The World Keep On Turning
How Blue Can You Get
Bleeding Heart
I have this on an official CD "London Live '68"

And, according to the Chrome Oxide pages:
PERSONNEL: July 1967 - September 1967
Peter Green - vocals, guitar, harmonica
Jeremy Spencer - vocal, guitar
Bob Brunning - bass
Mick Fleetwood - drums

LIVE SHOW: August 13, 1967 7th National Jazz & Blues Festival, Royal Windsor Racecourse, Windsor, Berkshire, England (pc)
(first live show)

I got this show by trade, it consists of the following songs:
SETLIST:
1. I Can't Hold Out
2. I'm Going Home ( later known as "I Loved Another Woman")
3. I Need You Baby
4. Fleetwood Mac
5. Fine Little Mama
6. World Keep On Turning
7. Shake Your Moneymaker

Then there is the official CD:
LIVE SHOW: August 15, 1967 Live At Marquee Club, London, England
Talk To Me Baby
I Held My Baby Last Night
My Baby's Sweet
Looking For Somebody
Evil Woman Blues
Got To Move
No Place To Go
Watch Out For Me Woman
Mighty Long Time
Dust My Blues
I Need You, Come On Home To Me
Shake Your Money Maker
Long Grey Mare (not on CD)
Red Hot Mama (not on CD)

I guess you have enough information to help you sort out which concert you laid your hands on.
:rolleyes:
Wouter

[Wouter Vuijk]

Peter used to do 'blatantly sexual' pretty well and often :blob1: Like Lazy Poker Blues - how cool is that song :nod: And 'Lemon Squeezer' off Shrine '69 is just rude :laugh:

How about Led Zeppelin (The lemon song, I believe from LZ-1):
"Squeeze my lemon, till the juice runs down my leg"
:blob1:

[bretonbanquet]

Well I guess the concert I have is 15/9/67 despite what it says in the notes :rolleyes:

What you listed as the 13/9/67 gig might be what Oona has, depending on the setlist. I wasn't aware of the setlist for that gig - I rather naturally assumed it would be similar to the gig they played two days later. In fact the two shows only seem to share one song.

The term 'official' might be rather loosely applied to the CDs of both the 15/9/67 gig and that of 27/4/68. But then I'm probably wrong again.

[Wouter Vuijk]

Well I guess the concert I have is 15/9/67 despite what it says in the notes :rolleyes:

What you listed as the 13/9/67 gig might be what Oona has, depending on the setlist. I wasn't aware of the setlist for that gig - I rather naturally assumed it would be similar to the gig they played two days later. In fact the two shows only seem to share one song.

The term 'official' might be rather loosely applied to the CDs of both the 15/9/67 gig and that of 27/4/68. But then I'm probably wrong again.

The Marquee is "officially" listed as taken from august 15, not from september 15. However seemingly they also played the Marquee on september 5 that year. How are we ever going to know about the exact recording dates???

I did not list the debut concert on september 13, but on august 13. Anyway, august or september, there seems to be a 2-day span between the concerts, both havin Bob Brunning on bass (the original topic of this ledge).

As for offficial CD's, I meant that I bought these in ordinary record stores that don't selll bootlegs.

Greetings,
Wouter :o

[bretonbanquet]

I did not list the debut concert on september 13, but on august 13.

So you did - I should be in bed by now :(

It's very confusing, and I am easily confused sometimes... there were a lot of gigs and the dates are wrong in some sources, for sure. Anyway as you say, Brunning was definitely playing at these shows.

Yeah, I know what you meant by 'official', but I doubt that the band saw a penny from those CDs :(

[Wouter Vuijk]

So you did - I should be in bed by now(

Sleep tight :xoxo:

[bretonbanquet]

Sleep tight :xoxo:

It's definitely past my bedtime :laugh:

[ThePenguin]

There were quite a number of amazing acts that day......(the) Cream, (the) Pink Floyd, Mayall, Pentangle, Crazy world of Aurthur Brown, interestingly also a band called Chicken Shack......hmmmmm.....once again, I call on more seasoned veterans of FM lore who might know if this was the first meeting of Christine and John or not.


I think I've read J and C saw each other there, but didn't actually formally 'meet' there. Chris must have been easy to notice, being like the only female performer there LOL, and I remember Chris saying Mayall played in the 'big tent'-- Mayall was a big name so she probably watched them and hence, saw John.

Their first real meeting--when I assume they were introduced to each other and actually talked a bit-- was 3 mos later, in Nov 1967 at London's Saville Theater. I believe John was still engaged to some other girl at that time, though, so it was just a 'friend' thing for awhile. :)

-Lis

[Oona]

thanx much for the responses....what a quagmire band histories can be.

[SteveMacD]

How about Led Zeppelin (The lemon song, I believe from LZ-1):
"Squeeze my lemon, till the juice runs down my leg"
:blob1:

I hate "The Lemon Song" because they took a couple of songs they didn't write and put them with a few lines they did write. Most of "Lemon Song" was actually Howlin' Wolf's "Killin' Floor" with the classic lemon line from Robert Johnson's "Travelling Riverside Blues." And yet they took full credit for the song. :rolleyes: BTW, it was on LZ-2.


Killin' Floor
Chester Burnett a.k.a. Howlin' Wolf

I should'a quit you, long time ago
I should'a quit you, baby, long time ago
I should'a quit you, and went on to Mexico
If I ha'da followed, my first mind
If I ha'da followed, my first mind
I'd'a been gone, since my second time
I should'a went on, when my friend come from Mexico at me
I should'a went on, when my friend come from Mexico at me
I was foolin' with ya baby, I let ya put me on the
killin' floor
Lord knows, I should'a been gone
Lord knows, I should'a been gone
And I wouldn't've been here, down on the killin' floor
----

Traveling Riverside Blues
Robert Johnson:

If your man get personal, want you to have your fun
If your man get personal, want you to have your fun
Best come on back to Friars Point, mama, and barrelhouse all night long

I got women's in Vicksburg, clean on into Tennessee
I got women's in Vicksburg, clean on into Tennessee
But my Friars Point1 rider, now, hops all over me

I ain't gon' to state no color but her, front teeth crowned with gold
I ain't gon' to state no color but her, front teeth is crowned with gold
She got a mortgage on my body, now, and a lien on my soul

Lord, I'm goin' to Rosedale, gon' take my rider by my side
Lord, I'm goin' to Rosedale, gon' take my rider by my side
We can still barrelhouse baby, on the riverside

Now you can squeeze my lemon 'til the juice run down my...
(spoken: 'til the juice rune down my leg, baby, you know what I'm talkin' about)
You can squeeze my lemon 'til the juice run down my leg
(spoken: That's what I'm talkin' 'bout, now)
But I'm goin' back to Friars Point1, if I be rockin'to my head
-----

The Lemon Song
Jimmy Page, Robert Plant, John Paul Jones, & John Bohnam

I should have quit you long time ago,
Yeah, long time ago.
Oh yeah, long time ago.
I wouldn't be here, my children,
down on this killin' floor.
I should have listened, baby, to my second mind X2
Everytime I go away and leave you, darling,
You send me the blues way down the line.
Babe, treat me right, baby, oh my my my
People tellin' me baby can't be satisfied;
They try to worry me baby
But they never hurt you in my eyes.
Said, people worry I can't keep you satisfied.
Let me tell you baby,
You ain't nothin but a two-bit, no-good jive.
Went to sleep last night, worked as hard as I can,
Bring home my money, you take my money, give it to another man;
I should have quit you, baby, such a long time ago,
I wouldn't be here with all my troubles
Down on this killing floor.
Squeeze me baby, till the juice runs down my leg, X2
The way you squeeze my lemon,
I..I'm gonna fall right out of bed, Yeah.
Hey! (conversation between Robert Plant & guitar)
Baby baby baby...
I'm gonna leave my children down on this killin floor.

[dino]

Actually,
the first F Mac gig was August 13, 1967 at the WIndsor festival. The Marquee gig was some days later.
I have the Windsor performance on tape, it's short but great, with the only live version of the SONG "Fleetwood mac" that i've ever heard.
Agree about Zeppelin; they should have acknowledged where their early songs songs came from.
"Lemon song" is basically "Killin' floor" all the way through
/dino

[Wouter Vuijk]

I hate "The Lemon Song" because they took a couple of songs they didn't write and put them with a few lines they did write. Most of "Lemon Song" was actually Howlin' Wolf's "Killin' Floor" with the classic lemon line from Robert Johnson's "Travelling Riverside Blues." And yet they took full credit for the song. :rolleyes: BTW, it was on LZ-2.


Hi Steve,
I fully agree with you comments.
I have all these recordings as well and should've known better.
However, it was way past my bedtime and I felt I just HAD to respond to sexual blatelently comments. :sorry: :wavey: :p

[SteveMacD]

Hi Steve,
I fully agree with you comments.
I have all these recordings as well and should've known better.
However, it was way past my bedtime and I felt I just HAD to respond to sexual blatelently comments. :sorry: :wavey: :p
Oh, I wasn't commenting on you, just "The Lemon Song." Anyway, it was well past MY bedtime when I posted that message. :thumbsup:

[ThePenguin]

Actually,
the first F Mac gig was August 13, 1967 at the WIndsor festival. The Marquee gig was some days later.
I have the Windsor performance on tape, it's short but great, with the only live version of the SONG "Fleetwood mac" that i've ever heard.
Agree about Zeppelin; they should have acknowledged where their early songs songs came from.
"Lemon song" is basically "Killin' floor" all the way through
/dino

This is sort of OT--- but I heard a story once, or actually I think i read it-- that Robert Plant and Jimmy Page once walked into a British pub back in the early days of Zeppelin and actually came upon an American bluesman doing a blues song. Plant said something like, "Hey, we do that song!" and Page told him something like, "Shut up and let's get the f*ck out of here." Sad but funny in a way. I guess the story implies that page was far more aware of how much they were swiping stuff than Plant was? Anyone else ever hear that?? maybe it's all BS?

-Lis

[bretonbanquet]

I think the appropriation of old blues songs by various bands around that time was pretty widespread. After all, Jeremy used to do it fairly regularly and quite blatantly, and Peter did it a few times too. 'Leaving Town Blues' owed a hell of a lot to 'If I Get Lucky' by Arthur Crudup for example. I was quite shocked when I heard that song :eek:

[chiliD]

And, "Ramblin' Pony" is pretty much Muddy Waters' "Rollin' & Tumblin'" with different lyrics.

[BklynBlue]

Attempting to sort out the song appropriations can be very difficult indeed.
"Lemon Squeezer" on "Shrine '69" is actually a John Lee "Sonny Boy" Williamson song titled "Until My Love Comes Down".
"Going Home", from the Windsor debut is a Howlin' Wolf song, which Wolf himself later adapted into the better known "Who's Talking", which Green then used as his template for "I Loved Another Woman".
Even the LP / CD releasing companies can get the credits wrong. Chess Records artist Jimmy Rogers (real name Jimmy Lane) is listed as the composer of "Lemon Sqeezer" on "Shrine '69" for some reason, and every release that I have seen of the material on "London Live '68" has Jimi Hendrix ( ! ) as the composer on "Bleeding Heart" which ends the disc.
FWIW, it is an Elmore James song.

[P90pup]

They were always blatantly sexual :lol: Mick's swinging balls swinging
from his belt...and his percussive use of them with his drumsticks during
Oh Well....Ya had to be there :thumbsup:

[SteveMacD]

And, "Ramblin' Pony" is pretty much Muddy Waters' "Rollin' & Tumblin'" with different lyrics.
When I think of an original blues song, I usually think of lyrics. Let's face it, there are really so few blues patterns, and they have been passed down from generation to generation. Chicago blues is essentially electrified Delta blues, which is the original musical tradition of the great Chicago bluesmen. I doubt that Muddy originated the whole "Rollin' & Tumblin'" music. Some of the lyrics were probably passed down, too. Ironically, "Rollin' & Tumblin'" also sounds a lot like Robert Johnson's "Travellin' Riverside Blues." So, "Ramblin Pony" is about as original as one can get with Chicago blues. The lyrics weren't total rip-offs of others, which was not the case with "The Lemon Song."