The Girls Light Em Up on Unreleased Versions

[desertangel]

From Nicksfix Backup Singers Q&A

Hi Lori! Thank you soooo much for taking time to answer our questions. Here's mine. We all know how Stevie feels about this but you and Sharon haven't really put in your two bits. How do you feel about all the demos and "unfinished" songs being out on the internet for fans to download and have? Do you think anything should be done about it or should they be able to have them to enjoy? I for one LOVE "Julia" and one called "Prittiest Girl in the World" and hope that they make it onto an album soon!!!

Lori's answer:

Hi "Desrtangl"! (That's one of my favorite songs!) Welllll..... you want to know my feelings? You may not like what I have to say, but here goes..... I think it is sinful that people have "stolen" Stevie's unfinished/unreleased songs. If there were something that could be done about it, I would say, ABSOLUTELY... do it!!!! That having been said... I will try to explain: All of Stevie's songs are, well, STEVIE'S... and nobody has a right to them except for Stevie. They are personal, and private... until she is ready to share them with the world. Listen... there were reasons why those songs were not put on records previously. In alot of cases it was because the song was not finished, or had not been recorded and/or represented the way Stevie meant for them to be. "Julia" (one of my favorite unreleased songs) is a good example of a song that is quite personal to Stevie, and wasn't done quite the way she wanted. We always intended to re-do it, but for various reasons, it hasn't happened yet. Now that people have made these songs available everyone, it's possible she may never do them again, even the right way, which is sad. I think if these people thought about it, they wouldn't like it if someone read their diaries, without their permission... it's the same thing.



Hi Sharon ,My question is a a hard one I bet ..Do you think Stevie Knows that her Demos and other unfinished works have been sold and traded within her fan base? There all great and I want to tell you there is a outtake of you singing Leather and Lace, just you on vocal and it must be the best version I have ever heard! Take care!

Sharon's answer:

Hi Angie,
Stevie does know that her demos and other unfinished works have been sold and traded as "bootlegs". As you can read on her "Ask Stevie" page here on the Nicks Fix site, in her own words, "It greatly upsets me that people came into my life and stole my tapes". Of course it upsets me greatly as well, that this would happen to Stevie. As interesting as it might be to the fans to hear these recordings, it is still a violation of Stevie's privacy. Please consider that it would be much more appropriate to leave the decisions about circulating versions of a "work in progress" to the artist.

As concerns your comments about my vocal on "Leather and Lace", I only recently found out that there was a version of me singing the song going around. In this case, I was singing what is called a "guide vocal" for a Stevie recording session, so that the musicians would know where the lead vocal parts would be going while they were learning the song and working on the arrangement. This would be similar to a stand-in reading a part for a lead actor on a movie set, to give the other actors and camera men a chance to work out their parts and ideas for the actual filming. Please keep in mind, if this had been intended for public release, an entirely different process would have been used in order to get the best possible performance. Anyway, I'm glad that you enjoy Stevie's music so much, and thanks for your kind words about my vocal.

[David]

I think it is sinful that people have "stolen" Stevie's unfinished/unreleased songs.It's pretty clear now just what that whole camp thinks of all the demos leaking. I can't say it's much of a surprise. Don't most pop singers & bands hate it when their demos leak?

Someone should ask Sharon about why the "official people" allegedly didn't respond to the announcement about the Modern storage facility auction. Did they think it was all a joke? or that Stevie's fans didn't want to get their hands on all of it?

To be a rock star, you should have to pass the class on What Is a Fan 101. Fleetwood Macsters just seem so naive & so stupid, although I fully appreciate their disgust over the demo issue. If I were in their shoes, I wouldn't want my unfinished songs leaked, either, although I doubt I'd mind my concerts being recorded.

[MacMan]

I agree... I probably wouldn't be too happy either if something I did that wasn't finished was taken or found and then distributed... But. On the other hand... It in a way has kept alot of us going through the lean years when we thought it was over to the point that we may not be around today had this stuff not surfaced.

[gldstwmn]

I agree... I probably wouldn't be too happy either if something I did that wasn't finished was taken or found and then distributed... But. On the other hand... It in a way has kept alot of us going through the lean years when we thought it was over to the point that we may not be around today had this stuff not surfaced.

Not to mention, the tapes that were stolen contained how many songs? 10? We've seen many, many more since then. Stevie herself has circulated her unfinished works at times. Why else would she go looking for a piano demo of Rhiannon to put on her box set?
While I can understand anger at "the tapes" being stolen, I think we're talking about a lot more material than "the tapes." :shrug: It had to come from somewhere.
Besides, some of them are quite brilliant.
Stevie didn't like the end result Julia? :confused: It's not that different from that first version she recorded with Shelley Yakus.
Sometimes she is surrounded by too much love. :)

[strandinthewind]

I truly stuggled with the demo issue after she said she resented people having them. But, I think that maybe if she knew the absolute JOY songs like Julia, The Dealer, Space Needle, The Tower, POTU, etc. provided me and I am very sure many, many others - she maybe would reconsider her position. I also think she has aquired many fans that way. I know one I played The Tower and POTU for that went to three of the TISL concerts and had no intention of going to those concerts prior to hearing those two. So, maybe if she knew that, she might not be as prone not to record these songs, be so angry, etc. In the end though, they are her songs and it is her right - period. I just think maybe the people around her do not let her know how much people really like those old demos and love her work. Also, witnessing the transformation from start to finish, which in some cases is 30 years, is beguiling to me and many others. I know we are taking the choice from her and that is wrong. I just wanted to point out that none that I know download them with derision. In fact, it usually is with glee and excitement because it is further insight into one of the greatest performers and songwriter of their time - I certainly feel this way. Anyway, that is my $0.02 offered in a friendly way and with no disrespect to Stevie :cool:

[wondergirl9847]

I'm probably going to say something not everyone will like, but whatevah.

I think seriously famous musicians (like, I don't know, just throwing out names...Stevie Nicks. LOL) don't realize that their fans would sit in a room with them and listen to them sing off key, no make up on, in jeans and a tee shirt JUST to hear them sing. They are clueless as to what their fans want, yearn for, etc. Those of us who live day to day listening to music non-stop, living and breathing it, it's like drugs to us! We have to have it, and hearing new stuff, never before heard is exciting, no matter what. These people are so damn sheltered (IMO) that I wanna smack 'em sometimes because I want them to come back down to earth and sit in the frickin' dirt and just sing it from the gut....no lights, no cameras, no fru fru crap...just sing, dammit! :laugh: Some people out there need hand holding and sh*t, not me. Come down from the chiffon high and just realize that your fans love and support you, and those demos have given people years of enjoyment.

I see her point and I realize that she is pi$$ed about it and whether it be a privacy issue or money issues, she should know that her fans are just longing for more and more. It's not that we want to rip away cash from artists or anything, we just love music so much and want as much as we can listen to. No thanks to the frickin' music biznizz, who wants to jerk people around and bend 'em over the desk....they've made music almost miserable for everyone. :distress: I got music artist issues to rant about today, I guess. :shrug:

Music is my anti-drug, dammit. :lol: I love it so much it hurts sometimes.

[skcin]

Stevie herself has circulated her unfinished works at times. Why else would she go looking for a piano demo of Rhiannon to put on her box set?


When? What songs? According to who? Do you just mean Enchanted Rhiannon, or are you talking about other material too? You've peaked my curiousity.

[gldstwmn]

When? What songs? According to who? Do you just mean Enchanted Rhiannon, or are you talking about other material too? You've peaked my curiousity.

According to her in interviews for the release of the Enchanted Box Set.

[EveryHour]

I completely respect what Sharon and Lori had to say and largely agree with them. But, for me, it's just too tempting knowing these things are floating around and that me refusing to acquire them will not put and end to them floating around, especially since I never exchange money (is that just my way of freeing myself of guilt?! :angel: ). At least I feel like most of the people who are trading (as opposed to buying) care enough about that artist to not exchange money, therefore they are not likely to judge them harshly by their unfinished works. It does upset me to see Lori compare it to someone stealing your diary. But I do have a show from the TISL tour where Stevie displays a sense of humor on the issue. Before either "Sorceror" or "Planets" she says something like, "You've all probably heard it on some bootleg already!" with humor in her voice.

[thepoetinmyhear]

Well, now I want to hear their response to a question asking how they feel about people booting live shows. Anyone already asked?

[Johnny Stew]

Given the choice, I'm sure Stevie would rather they had never leaked in the first place, but since the barn door was left open and the horses escaped years ago, she's probably come to terms with it.

One of those things in life that you're not happy it happened, but that you deal with because you know there's no changing it now.

Something I've wondered for a while, is how Lindsey felt/feels about his entire 'Gift Of Screws' project leaking out, long before he was ready for the tracks to be heard.

As a rabid fan who can never get enough new music from Fleetwood Mac, et al., I do download the demos and outtakes when they pop up... but I do so with the complete intention of purchasing them if they should ever be made available through legitimate channels.

I just find it laughable when fans grumble that Stevie used an "old song" on one of her new albums, when, by all rights, we never should have heard those songs in the first place.

[Kelly]

I agree about Lindsey. The whole GoS thing was sad. Of course I grabbed it as soon as it was available but I hated how some fans then later complained when his songs sounded different on the SYW album. (commonly Stevie was to blame as if Lindsey was obligated to release the tracks exactly as the boots were.)
As far as Stevie's boots..there have been too many leaks over the years. Honestly, the stolen tapes was a small part of this whole fiasco. There has to be someone continually leaking stuff for things like Thrown Down, Space Needle, My Heart, etc to keep being released. That is what is baffling to me. They claim they are so angry and it is so wrong and an invasion of privacy but why does it keep happening year after year? Plug up the holes if it bothers you that much.

I remember at one of the TISl shows I went to she said something before Planets..."I know many of you have heard this a long time ago and that is great..."...I guess she has just accepted it.

[diamondsnake]

I don't really collect demos, but the few demos that I do have (My Heart, Space Needle, Christian, ummm that is it) are great and I don't feel bad about listening to them b/c it makes me love Stevie even more and I've paid ridiculous ticket prices and purchased every single album she has put out. So in my opinion, she owes me one!

However, I don't have that many demos because I prefer to just wait and get the final version. If I had heard the Not Make Believe demo before I got the SYW collectors edition, then the song would not be very special, now would it?

[diamondsnake]

I remember at one of the TISl shows I went to she said something before Planets..."I know many of you have heard this a long time ago and that is great..."...I guess she has just accepted it.

I don't think she is upset that people listen to her demos. I think she is upset that people stole them and leaked them out. But what is done is done so she has to accept the fact that we've heard them and we love them! :xoxo:

[Mageboy25]

Does the camp realize that its mainly only us geeky fans that download the demos? We are the same geeks that will buy anything and everything she puts out commercially anyway. So no money is lost.

I believe that the whole selling/buying bootlegs is obsolete now anyway. Everyone and their brother has a cd burner now and can download music. Back in the 90s, 80s we might have bought bootlegs bc we didnt have the means at the time to trade them. I never bought any. I wonder if Stevie knows the days of selling her stuff illegally are over?

[dissention]

It's pretty clear now just what that whole camp thinks of all the demos leaking. I can't say it's much of a surprise. Don't most pop singers & bands hate it when their demos leak?

Miss Nicks wouldn't have the rabid fan base she currently has if it wasn't for those demos and unreleased songs. She should be grateful that someone leaked 'em. I know if I was a famous musician or just getting my feet on the gorund int he music industry, I'd circulate my own demos and other such shit. It would be too rewarding in terms of fan loyalty not to.

[LiquidBlue5000]

Well, now I want to hear their response to a question asking how they feel about people booting live shows. Anyone already asked?

Same here!! someone should ask that.... very curious as to what their response would be..

[dissention]

I just find it laughable when fans grumble that Stevie used an "old song" on one of her new albums, when, by all rights, we never should have heard those songs in the first place.

I grumble because I don't want to hear songs that were written years ago, I want current work. Even if it results in sludge like That Made Me Stronger. :D

[dissention]

As far as Stevie's boots..there have been too many leaks over the years. Honestly, the stolen tapes was a small part of this whole fiasco. There has to be someone continually leaking stuff for things like Thrown Down, Space Needle, My Heart, etc to keep being released. That is what is baffling to me. They claim they are so angry and it is so wrong and an invasion of privacy but why does it keep happening year after year? Plug up the holes if it bothers you that much.

The Stevie Nicks camp leaks them on purpose because they know how wild her fanbase is about them and it keeps them interested. I've thought so for years.

[LiquidBlue5000]

I grumble because I don't want to hear songs that were written years ago, I want current work. Even if it results in sludge like That Made Me Stronger. :D

ugh.. don't get me started on that song :rolleyes:

[MacMan]

The Stevie Nicks camp leaks them on purpose because they know how wild her fanbase is about them and it keeps them interested. I've thought so for years.

I think you are on the money with that statement. Aside from the Masters which we know came from a clearing out of the Modern Records warehouse when the label folded... I always thought that someone close to her was leaking some of the demos... and doing it on purpose... I mean it's quite brilliant if you think about it, and if it's true... It's kept me interested for years - not by continually listening to them, but continually trying to get them knowing they exsist.!

[dissention]

I think you are on the money with that statement. Aside from the Masters which we know came from a clearing out of the Modern Records warehouse when the label folded... I always thought that someone close to her was leaking some of the demos... and doing it on purpose... I mean it's quite brilliant if you think about it, and if it's true... It's kept me interested for years - not by continually listening to them, but continually trying to get them knowing they exsist.!

Just look at the masters, though. They were alerted about them and did nothing. It's not like they didn't think the fans would get them and circulate them. Those demos and bootlegs are very responsible for giving her such a rabid fan base, who knows where she'd be right now without them. :nod:

[MacMan]

Just look at the masters, though. They were alerted about them and did nothing.

That's true... But possibly they weren't given all the information to make a proper choice... and maybe the person(s) alerting them that they were going up for auction didn't realize what was all there to begin with so that they could make the argument that she HAD to get these back or else. And wasn't Stevie's camp asked to buy them back or something and they refused saying they had copies of their own? I don't know.. that whole thing was really weird, but goes to show what can happen.

[Nixxxed]

I've seen an interview (somewhere) where she says something about "Gold and Braid" being one of the songs originally stolen & that it ended up being OK because people got to hear the song since it was booted from Bella Donna. Why else would she have performed it in concert?

As far as having copies of unreleased songs & demos -- I never buy them. But I WOULD buy them, from HER, if she released them. Say, if there were limited-edition discs that were offered to fans after the release of each album, containing that album's demos, outtakes, etc. Or if she put together a boxed set, as I've suggested via The Nicksfix about 10 times now. Strangely, my question never gets answered. :shrug: :laugh:

NOTE: I was gonna say the limited-edition discs/boxed sets should be offered through The Nicksfix or through a *REAL* SN Fan Club, but I really wouldn't want either of those parties involved. *sigh*

[EnchantedSLN]

But possibly they weren't given all the information to make a proper choice... and maybe the person(s) alerting them that they were going up for auction didn't realize what was all there to begin with so that they could make the argument that she HAD to get these back or else. And wasn't Stevie's camp asked to buy them back or something and they refused saying they had copies of their own? I don't know.. that whole thing was really weird, but goes to show what can happen.

Right, but his point is, if Stevie was concerned about those masters getting into the hands of the fans, she could have re-obtained them just to keep them from being circulated, regardless of whether or not she had her own safety copies elsewhere. The fact that she didn't suggests she wasn't all that worried about people hearing them. If I remember correctly, the whole auction only went for a few thousand dollars. A lot for us, but spare change for Stevie or the record/management company protecting her interests. Perhaps, as you say, the person who originally sold them didn't give cough up all the info or go to great lengths to contact Stevie and her camp, but several fans also tried contacting Stevie through her management and various other means, including John Kinney. At that point all the info was there on the auction page. The responses all seemed to be along the lines of 'Yeah, we know. Thanks.' Maybe there's something we don't know or perhaps Stevie was never told about it afterall. If she was, the idea that she's very upset over her unfinished material being passed around doesn't really hold water, though. That, or she simply underestimated her fan community and never imagined people would actually go to the trouble of getting all those old reels baked, transferred, and out into the light of day.

[desertangel]

The Stevie Nicks camp leaks them on purpose because they know how wild her fanbase is about them and it keeps them interested. I've thought so for years.

Agreed. And creating additional drama by speaking so strongly against such practices, yet not following up with any action to stop what's out there... dare I say it? You can all blame me if it all suddenly dries up. :eek:


Laura

[HejiraNYC]

The Stevie Nicks camp leaks them on purpose because they know how wild her fanbase is about them and it keeps them interested. I've thought so for years.

I would agree with you... but come on... why would someone intentionally leak an absolute turd like "Lily Girl"? :eek:

[dissention]

I would agree with you... but come on... why would someone intentionally leak an absolute turd like "Lily Girl"? :eek:

Why would someone intentionally record and officially release That Made Me Stronger? :laugh:

[xxxmx]

if they're so upset that the demos are being passed around, why don't they try and cut in on it. i've long thought that every band should boot their own shows and post them on their website for download for... $5 maybe? even if they charged $1 per download, can you imagine? doesn't MAC boot them all anyways? it would only generate money as the only cost to the band would be upoading that file and covering bandwidth. you know we'd all spend $1 on a show. i understand that not every show is spectacular in quality, but who cares? hey FM, stop being self-conscious and make some cash... same thing could go with the demos. clean up the static and post it.

anyone remember when pearl jam booted their tour and then sold them, real cds, nothing fabulous, but how cool was it to have that souvenir.

[dissention]

That, or she simply underestimated her fan community and never imagined people would actually go to the trouble of getting all those old reels baked, transferred, and out into the light of day.

By now, if she's underestimating her fans, she's a dunce. :laugh: She has fans that dress up as her and follow her around on tour, fans that make their living off of her (I'm lookin' at you, Babs), fans that bring her Tiffany lamps at shows, and once had a fan that thought her magical powers could cure him of his homosexuality. Transferring master reels that she abandoned and trading them around is the very least she should expect!

[MacMan]

My brother is or was into Metallica and on I think it was their last tour... They have this website strickly for downloading live shows. The whole tour was recorded and the whole tour was up for download... Think the cost was $10 bucks a show... you had the option of wav or mp3 download... Not sure, but I think it came with artwork too.... And you could have the show you were at about 2-3 days after. There's a few sites/bands that do it now... I think Kiss is another.

Only problem really is that one person will buy or a group of people will buy and 50 people will be copied... so they wouldn't make all that much.

[CreepingDeath]

My brother is or was into Metallica and on I think it was their last tour... They have this website strickly for downloading live shows. The whole tour was recorded and the whole tour was up for download... Think the cost was $10 bucks a show... you had the option of wav or mp3 download... Not sure, but I think it came with artwork too.... And you could have the show you were at about 2-3 days after. There's a few sites/bands that do it now... I think Kiss is another.

It was on Metallica's official site that you could download shows. I downloaded about 20.

How I wish Stevie/FM would do that. That will never happen though. Nevah! :rolleyes:

[David]

I've seen an interview (somewhere) where she says something about "Gold and Braid" being one of the songs originally stolen & that it ended up being OK because people got to hear the song since it was booted from Bella Donna. Why else would she have performed it in concert?Because it's a great song!

The songs that she told the Cleveland radio station were stolen were the songs somebody bootlegged on vinyl (Almanac) in 1979: Without You, Cathouse Blues, Goldfish & Ladybug, Sorcerer, Nomad, Watchdevil, etc.

[catinthedark]

I truly stuggled with the demo issue after she said she resented people having them. But, I think that maybe if she knew the absolute JOY songs like Julia, The Dealer, Space Needle, The Tower, POTU, etc. provided me and I am very sure many, many others - she maybe would reconsider her position. .... In the end though, they are her songs and it is her right - period. I just think maybe the people around her do not let her know how much people really like those old demos and love her work. ...I just wanted to point out that none that I know download them with derision. In fact, it usually is with glee and excitement because it is further insight into one of the greatest performers and songwriter of their time - I certainly feel this way. Anyway, that is my $0.02 offered in a friendly way and with no disrespect to Stevie :cool:

I really agree with your points here. I have to say, I felt like crap after I read Sharon and Lori's answers. And I knew what they were going to say (in fact, I sent questions to both of them about the demos and leaks, too). I would love to actually be able to sit down and explain to Stevie why we love these demos so much, and how for many of us, they are our favourite songs - maybe because we know we are a select little group that is lucky enough to know them. I don't know. I've always wondered, if I was ever so lucky and honoured to meet Stevie, would I have the guts to bring it up? I don't know. I would love to tell her why some of them mean so much to me (two in particular), but I can understand her feeling of having her privacy violated. (sigh - still torn) I'm somewhat cheered by the Stevie quote Kelly posted, which seemed to sound like Stevie knows they're out there and has come to accept it.

A seperate question... do most other artists have this many demos and outtakes out there (not live shows)? I've never had any interest in checking out other atrists' fan sites. But are Stevie and Fleetwood Mac so unique? And if so - WHY??? That is the question that would interest me. Are Stevie/Lindsey/Fleetwood Mac fans so very different in their love and need for material?

[dissention]

A seperate question... do most other artists have this many demos and outtakes out there (not live shows)? I've never had any interest in checking out other atrists' fan sites. But are Stevie and Fleetwood Mac so unique? And if so - WHY??? That is the question that would interest me. Are Stevie/Lindsey/Fleetwood Mac fans so very different in their love and need for material?

It depends on the artist, really. A lot of the artists and bands that are my favorites have a good amount of demos/outtakes and general bootlegs out there, like David Bowie, Franz Ferdinand, Blondie, Bob Dylan, etc. From what I've seen, I'd say Stevie/Mac fans are pretty darn casual in terms of bootlegs when compared to Bowie fans. They are an obsessive lot, those ones.

[blinker12]

As far as Stevie's boots..there have been too many leaks over the years. Honestly, the stolen tapes was a small part of this whole fiasco. There has to be someone continually leaking stuff for things like Thrown Down, Space Needle, My Heart, etc to keep being released. That is what is baffling to me. They claim they are so angry and it is so wrong and an invasion of privacy but why does it keep happening year after year? Plug up the holes if it bothers you that much.

I've wondered a lot about the sources of these leaks, too. I can tell you that Thrown Down (WOS) and My Heart came from some kind of German acetate version of TISL that was pressed before the album actually came out. The CD -- which as I understand it functioned as sort of preview for record company execs, producers and Stevie herself -- then got into fans' hands.

And we know the master reels came from the Modern warehouse.

But it perplexes me where Space Needle and other recent demos come from. The only thing I can figure is that Stevie or one of her associates makes CDs of the songs to give to her producers or session musicians when she's working on an album. Those CDs then somehow get out into the world. But I'd love to know the exact backstory. Maybe SaraRhiannon or some other expert could shed some light?

[Johnny Stew]

I grumble because I don't want to hear songs that were written years ago, I want current work.You grumble like you think it's your job. :laugh:
As someone who complains almost endlessly about her new songs, I would think you'd be happy when she includes some tracks from the time-period that you feel produced her best writing.

I've always enjoyed the mix of old and new on each album. Stevie has some brilliant songs in her vaulted catalog, and I think they deserve to see the light of the day anytime she's ready for them to.

[dissention]

You grumble like you think it's your job. :laugh:
As someone who complains almost endlessly about her new songs, I would think you'd be happy when she includes some tracks from the time-period that you feel produced her best writing.

Nope, I don't want the good ones to be ruined by her current voice. Write some new stuff. And put Space Needle on an album because I said so.

[Johnny Stew]

Nope, I don't want the good ones to be ruined by her current voice. Write some new stuff. And put Space Needle on an album because I said so.Would you say that when you want something, you get it? :laugh:

So far, I've loved every new recording of an old demo or outtake far better than the original version.

My only disappointment regarding any of them, is how badly I missed Lindsey's harmony vocal on "Candlebright."
Oh, and I do miss some of the vocal layering on "Running Through The Garden"... but, at the same time, I think they were smart to tighten it up, as the outtake version gets really sloppy towards the end.

[SaraRhiannon]

But it perplexes me where Space Needle and other recent demos come from. The only thing I can figure is that Stevie or one of her associates makes CDs of the songs to give to her producers or session musicians when she's working on an album. Those CDs then somehow get out into the world. But I'd love to know the exact backstory. Maybe SaraRhiannon or some other expert could shed some light?


Aw, I'm far from an expert! I really don't know how these things get leaked. The TISL demos first surfaced on eBay in 2001. They were two separate CD's:

-Trouble in Shangri-La demos/outtakes 6-15-99: Candlebright (Sheryl Crow rough mix 5-27-99), Sorcerer (Sheryl Crow rough mix 5-27-99), Thrown Down #1, Thrown Down #2, Space Needle, Love Is (solo demo), Bombay Sapphires (solo demo), Not Make Believe, Trouble in Shangri-La (demo), Have No Heart, Planets of the Universe (5-23-99)

-Trouble in Shangri-La demos/outtakes 8-4-99: Planets of the Universe (8-2-99), Annabel Lee, Fall From Grace (demo), Love Changes (demo), That Made Me Stronger (demo)

I bought the first one, and I believe Daniel (stevienicks.info) bought the other one.

Last year, some people got an email from a mystery person who wanted to share "Chanel, Chanel" through a Yahoo group. I don't know who he was, or how he chose the people he emailed. He did send the song to me, and allowed me to post it for download. He also claimed to have a long rehearsal version of "Trouble in Shangri-La" that he was planning on sending, but he never did. The Yahoo group was deleted, and I never heard from him again.

Years ago, a woman contacted me for a trade, saying she had some stuff that she knew I didn't have. She was right, and they were songs that weren't yet in circulation (Night Gallery, Rock a Bye Baby, an alternate version of Impossible Task, and a clear version of Ooh Baby). She said that she used to work for Paul Fishkin, so I figured that's how she got her hands on the demos. Ever since then, I've assumed that a lot of the unreleased stuff is leaked (either purposely or accidentally) by people associated with Stevie, or by people who have access to those people. It just makes the most sense.

[gldstwmn]

That, or she simply underestimated her fan community and never imagined people would actually go to the trouble of getting all those old reels baked, transferred, and out into the light of day.

Then girlfriend underestimated us. We are, her fans, after all. :thumbsup:
Is there any love there? Oh honey! :xoxo:

[gldstwmn]

Because it's a great song!

etc.

Then why wasn't Moncrieff credited for it? It kicks ass!

[gldstwmn]

I really agree with your points here. I have to say, I felt like crap after I read Sharon and Lori's answers.

Darling, I feel like if we could talk to them one on one, their answers would be different. :shrug:

[gldstwmn]

, Bob Dylan,

Coolest cat you will ever meet. Ask him to go out for Chinese food. ;)
Don't try to figure him out. And love my man Paul Simon if he's out on tour with him. :thumbsup: He sang Mrs. Robinosn to me duing a sound check once when he was out with Dylan and well... Jesus... :] Paul gets it. :nod:

[blinker12]

Thanks for the interesting info, SaraRhiannon. That clears up a lot of questions...

[dissention]

Coolest cat you will ever meet. Ask him to go out for Chinese food. ;)
Don't try to figure him out. And love my man Paul Simon if he's out on tour with him. :thumbsup: He sang Mrs. Robinosn to me duing a sound check once when he was out with Dylan and well... Jesus... :] Paul gets it. :nod:

:thumbsup:

I watched Dylan's bio on Biography the other night and he's a walking enigma. His book was a good read, but it seemed so blah. I'm really looking forward to Scorsese's documentary on him, though. I read it's going to be on PBS by the end of the year. Personally, I'd just love to have a compilation book of quotes from him over the years. :laugh:

[gldstwmn]

:thumbsup:

I watched Dylan's bio on Biography the other night and he's a walking enigma. His book was a good read, but it seemed so blah. :

It's all we will ever get from him. I saw him in 2000 and it was still the Kabuki makeup so...

[dissention]

It's all we will ever get from him. I saw him in 2000 and it was still the Kabuki makeup so...

:laugh:

He wore that to a screening of Masked and Anonymous, the one where he got furious at Jessica Lange for giving away the secret that he wrote the script. That movie is a one-of-a-kind.

[AliP]

The songs that she told the Cleveland radio station were stolen were the songs somebody bootlegged on vinyl (Almanac) in 1979: Without You, Cathouse Blues, Goldfish & Ladybug, Sorcerer, Nomad, Watchdevil, etc.

From that interview, it sounds like she gave her tapes to everyone and their dog. No wonder they got out. Tisk, tisk. She probably still does the same thing.

WMMS Phone Interview - 1981
(about how her demos got stolen specifically Cathouse Blues and Sorcerer)"I kind of know where I was when those particular songs were put together, so I know exactly when it was, even, when they disappeared which even makes me angrier because it makes me think of who I knew which is somebody that has total access to my tapes which is anybody that is a total friend of mine. I mean, anybody who is my friend has had all those tapes for five years and its only just now that they've come out and I also think that if it was a really good friend of mine, they would have just made a better copy because they could have!"

[desertangel]

A seperate question... do most other artists have this many demos and outtakes out there (not live shows)? I've never had any interest in checking out other atrists' fan sites. But are Stevie and Fleetwood Mac so unique? And if so - WHY??? That is the question that would interest me. Are Stevie/Lindsey/Fleetwood Mac fans so very different in their love and need for material?

It's very common. Collecting kinda goes with being a fan of anything. Jimi Hendrix rings abound with TONS of demos, outtakes and live shows that get traded away and downloaded like nothing. There are books written about all of them. Way more than Stevie and FM, in my opinion. And that guy's been dead for years. He didn't even start recording everything he did until he started to get really famous and that only lasted three years. That's all these people do, sit around and record stuff all day, all night, day in and day out. Except if they're taking Klonopin or something.

From what I read, it seems a lot of Jimi's stuff came from whoever was involved in running whichever studio he was in at the time. Eventually he bought a portable and would give create tapes in his apartment then give them to people for safekeeping. He also used to "lose" them in taxis because he was too stoned and lost track of what he was doing.

There are people who were close to Jimi Hendrix who have gone on record saying that Jimi would not have wanted fans to have the material that is bootlegged and pirated because it does not represent his best work and being that he was such a perfectionist as a musician, it would have upset him if he knew people were listening to stuff that he did not want made public as it was not the best representation of his music. It's a familiar story. And his fans are just as rabid, well, they're actually MORE rabid about collecting every scrap of anything ever recorded. Prolly party because he's dead, but mostly because he was the kick a*s guitar player of all time.


Laura

[catinthedark]

: His book was a good read, but it seemed so blah.

You are the first person, other than me, who I've heard (read) say this. Definitely a good read, but maybe because the critics had built it up to so much. I thought he seemed, at times, really pompous. At other times, really bored with his whole existance.

[catinthedark]

Darling, I feel like if we could talk to them one on one, their answers would be different. :shrug:

I think you're right. I would so love to sit down with Stevie, or the three of them even, and talk to them about them...

[dissention]

You are the first person, other than me, who I've heard (read) say this. Definitely a good read, but maybe because the critics had built it up to so much. I thought he seemed, at times, really pompous. At other times, really bored with his whole existance.

The critics always blow smoke when it comes to Dylan. Take his last album. It had some amazing tracks, but it also had some real stinkers; stuff I wouldn't listen to twice (um, Mississippi?). Yet they praised it to the high heavens.

[catinthedark]

The critics always blow smoke when it comes to Dylan. Take his last album. It had some amazing tracks, but it also had some real stinkers; stuff I wouldn't listen to twice (um, Mississippi?). Yet they praised it to the high heavens.

Yeah, he's definitely in that "Untouchables" category. Frankly, I think critics are just scared to say anything negative about him for fear of looking uneducated, unhip, uncool. Whatev. I thought his writing was great - no surprise there. But the structure (which so many have praised for being so 'out there" and refreshing) just baffled me. And I was dying to learn something about the people around him. I wanted to know who his wife was. Who his kids were. They were clearly SO important to him, and yet the reader got nothing. I think if you're going to write an autobiography or memoir, you can't decide to protect the identities of the people who shaped your life. Don't have to give names, but at least give them substance. And drop a little of the self-importance and arrogance.

[gldstwmn]

You are the first person, other than me, who I've heard (read) say this. Definitely a good read, but maybe because the critics had built it up to so much. I thought he seemed, at times, really pompous. At other times, really bored with his whole existance.

I really enjoyed the book, especially the parts about the early years in the Village.
It's definitely not a tell all, though. :laugh:

[skcin]

I remember at one of the TISl shows I went to she said something before Planets..."I know many of you have heard this a long time ago and that is great..."...I guess she has just accepted it.


I remember this too. :wavey:

[seeker007nmss]

I really enjoyed the book, especially the parts about the early years in the Village.
It's definitely not a tell all, though. :laugh:



He doesn't remember it all........A few "missing" moments in the old brain I would imagine.

[rbs3676]

I have been a friend of Cheap Trick's lead singer Robin Zander for over 25 years. I once asked him if the band was ever going to release a song called "Give Me A Lesson In Love" and he responded with "How do you know THAT song?" and I told him that I had gotten it from some bootlegger along with a number of other things (live tracks and some soundtrack stuff). Anyway, Robin told me that he thought it was a "goofy" song and I said, "Yeah, well, I'll bet you would really like that "goofy" money that people are shelling out to hear that "goofy" song!" and he totally agreed.
Another time, I told him how "That 70's song" (which, at the time, had not been released as a single to the public, just radio) was going for as much as $30 on ebay and he could not believe it. :shocked:
My point is...being in a band comes with all sorts of little downfalls and fans taping your shows and circulating demos is just par for the course. I know that Robin would love to make the money off of the bands bootlegs but he is also realistic about it and knows that, short of keeping everything in a vault, there isn't much he can do about it. I'm sure Stevie, in some ways, feels the same.

rbs

[Mad4stevie]

Why not be proactive and release an official CD of the Buckingham Nicks album? This would put the ax to all those "silver" cd copies out there on ebay, and the money would go to SN and LB.

[LeighB04]

In an interview some years ago, Stevie refers to her demos and says something to the effect that if people heard her singing the songs in their raw form, playing piano badly, singing badly, they would get the emotion and the meaning and would cry.
My question is: why not release the music in that form, instead of sanitising it beyond recognition with producers who don't hear the first raw song (as it should be)? I would MUCH rather hear the song as it was written, as it's meant to be than some over-produced cleaned up version.
Take control of your music, Stevie - get in first, before anybody has a chance to release more badly recorded bootlegs, and put it out for your fans in it's purest, beautiful form.

[LiquidBlue5000]

In an interview some years ago, Stevie refers to her demos and says something to the effect that if people heard her singing the songs in their raw form, playing piano badly, singing badly, they would get the emotion and the meaning and would cry.
My question is: why not release the music in that form, instead of sanitising it beyond recognition with producers who don't hear the first raw song (as it should be)? I would MUCH rather hear the song as it was written, as it's meant to be than some over-produced cleaned up version.
Take control of your music, Stevie - get in first, before anybody has a chance to release more badly recorded bootlegs, and put it out for your fans in it's purest, beautiful form.

Wow.. not a bad idea... welcome to the Ledge, btw :wavey:

[vivfox]

In an interview some years ago, Stevie refers to her demos and says something to the effect that if people heard her singing the songs in their raw form, playing piano badly, singing badly, they would get the emotion and the meaning and would cry.
My question is: why not release the music in that form, instead of sanitising it beyond recognition with producers who don't hear the first raw song (as it should be)? I would MUCH rather hear the song as it was written, as it's meant to be than some over-produced cleaned up version.
Take control of your music, Stevie - get in first, before anybody has a chance to release more badly recorded bootlegs, and put it out for your fans in it's purest, beautiful form.

I've always felt that Stevie goes into the studio and pays thousands of dollars for them to ruin her songs.
I dredged up this old thread because people are always asking me where I get my demos from. This entire thread is very informative and interesting to see the names of a few people who are no longer Ledgies mixed in with several who still are.

[Sahara]

I remember this thread...!

Two things strike me about Stevie demos and boots.

1 - With demos you get to see a different facet of the song - different lyrics, ideas - and that lets you get closer to what the song means to the artist. POTU is a particularly good example of this -- the pronouns in the old lyrics that were chaned to "you will never love again" etc. spoke volumes about what Stevie was actually thinking. Particularly with Stevie, more so than other artists, her fans are fascinated with the events and people that inspired her songs, so we pick the lyrics apart to try and find out what she was talking about, and we get extra pieces of the jigsaw from the old demos.

2 - I would imagine (and hope) that any fan devoted enough to track down the demos in the first place would be devoted enough to buy the official release and support the artist if such a release were to happen. Lindsey's Bass Hall performance is an example -- I'm sure lots of people who recorded the show from TV or received copies will go ahead and buy the official release -- not for extra songs / interviews / better quality or whatever, simply for the fact that we want to support these people. Is that naive of me? :shrug:

[StreetAngel86]

shelve me in the section with those who prefer Stevie's demos to her released stuff. not all of them, but 90% of her demos i love, some are highly questionable and i wont name them coz i will get flamed :laugh:
i just wish some of them were recorded in higher quality
Prettiest Girl & Something Exquisite are my 2 very favorite demos and should NEVER go into the studio under any circumstance
Planets and Sorcerer should not have been butchered in the studio either
Planets i dont mind so much coz i like all the variations and the demo, the Rumours version and the TISL version are all good to see the evolution of stevie's thinking and period in her life.

Sorcerer on the other hand :shrug:
Stevie should have left that with Linds
and Sheryl should have been relocated to a remote island for however long it took Stevie to record that record

[jkmaletic]

I've always felt that Stevie goes into the studio and pays thousands of dollars for them to ruin her songs.
I dredged up this old thread because people are always asking me where I get my demos from. This entire thread is very informative and interesting to see the names of a few people who are no longer Ledgies mixed in with several who still are.

Agreed. "Not Make Believe" would be one of those ruined, IMO.

"That Made Me Stronger" seems to be hated around here, but I like it. :shrug:

Although I have a few of Stevie's demos and unreleased stuff, I can understand how she feels about it. If I was working on some art and wasn't finished with one of the drawings and someone leaked out a copy of it, I'd be bugged too. Heck, I even hate it when someone WATCHES me draw. So, I guess I feel kinda guilty for having some of Stevie's unfinished songs, but like someone said earlier, it's only cause we want to hear everything she dose. Considering how I feel about my own art, I guess that makes me a hypocrite.

~jamie

[baboles]

IMO...

If Stevie were to release all her demos on CDs then I would go out and buy them all even though I have a lot of them.

[starshine]

I love having all the demos/unreleased stuff...outtakes. I don't feel bad at all. And if ever someday that Stevie or FMac finally (I do say finally) release some of this stuff...I'd buy it again no problem. Stevie could do a B.Dylan and release box sets of say BD period with not just songs but outtake photos and another DVD and the offical release of the 'FULL' HBO special with extra songs deleted from the broadcast. (FMac could so do the same with re-issues to Mirage with extras as well as the 'FULL' release of the HBO special with the 'full' set of songs taken from both nights.) Stevie has so many options available to her. I sadly don't think she is excited anymore about the music business. Yes, its given her fame and a lifestyle that she likes but she is much, much older now and touring for long periods I don't think is going to happen anymore. She needs to see that she could offer so much ordering possiblities on the Web. She could give us those rare recordings on limited cds like above. I want the demos and outtakes as they are no 'new' copies. Clearer versions. Really, I don't think we have alot of unleaked material. I really believe that there are many more songs that we've not ever , ever heard before that are in her valuets. Sad but true. I mean just 'think' of demos that we've not ever heard songs for: original 'Rhiannon' (not the later demos for the movie version)/Landslide/Edge of 17/Stand Back/Sable On Blond/Blue Denim/One More Big Time R & R Star/Wild Heart/All The Beautiful Worlds--yes we have outtakes but not the demo for it. Yes, we have different versions or extended versions of songs (ex: Talk To Me or Rock A Little UK longer version 5:15 or the demo of song or others?)/Ghosts/the list is endless really......just remember demos and outtakes aren't the same really they are different. Same with unreleased songs. Of late there hasn't been anything 'new' or 'old' released sad but true. So if she's trying to keep the fan base interested I think we are dying to hear something anything 'new' ....kinda sad that we don't hear anything from Stevie's camp at all. She could have a great fan web site. Email us stuff/updates....her web site needs a overhaul....too much is old news on it really.....sad but true. Sararhiannons web site was so awesome. Its such a shame its gone....I loved it ...it was the best period. Stevie could do limited edition cds she could do them by period or just all over the place...it doesn't matter I'd buy it whatever way I could get it. I'd love all of this stuff offical. It would make her some $$ and as fans we'd be happy. Do that book too........coffee book with pictures would be so awesome...She could sell limited edition posters/clothes/shirts/etc....she just needs to see the possiblites avaible to her. For her fans....I'd love it thats for sure.......just some thoughts......:shrug::angel::D

[MoonWaterPoet]

As a rabid fan who can never get enough new music from Fleetwood Mac, et al., I do download the demos and outtakes when they pop up... but I do so with the complete intention of purchasing them if they should ever be made available through legitimate channels.

I just find it laughable when fans grumble that Stevie used an "old song" on one of her new albums, when, by all rights, we never should have heard those songs in the first place.[/QUOTE]

I agree completely, with what you said about downloading the demo's... I would still buy them through legitimate channels...

Donnie Wayne ~

[Eplanet]

OK, first every1, plz dont ignore me.?!
(black sheep of SN fans too?? :( )

wow, did u ever dig this one up viv. i looked cuz i was thinkin of askin a question about her backup singers.

and about studio vs. demo. i think at different times & different situations, i'd like one more than other. but when i got accapella for rooms of fire, i was just sorta shook for a minute. thought a accapella remix would be nice. some stuff, ya, it needs nothing to be great, but i still want to listen to studio songs.