Brummie accent

[ThePenguin]

Messing around again with google :rolleyes: -- this article caught my eye. Chris has often said she hates her Birmingham accent, but I guess I never realized what an awful stigma is still attached to it in the UK! Look at the last sentence of the article, about 'giving people w/ the accent a fair chance'. I had no idea the accent was so scorned over there!


http://news.bbc.co.uk/1/hi/england/west_midlands/3187433.stm

I've always thought she sounds adorable LOL.



-Lis

[amber]

That was interesting. I always thought Chris's accent must be a high class british kind. (not knowing anything about such, except that Cockney was low)
She sounds all refined to me... :D

[GateandGarden]

That was interesting. I always thought Chris's accent must be a high class british kind. (not knowing anything about such, except that Cockney was low)
She sounds all refined to me... :DSame here! I love the way she talks! I had no idea it was considered inferior by anyone.

Thanks for posting that article, Lis.

[NicksIllume]

I love her accent! I always love to find interviews or live shows where she talks. I feel her pain with hating an accent though. -_-

[macfan 57]

I LOVE Christine's accent. I always thought she sounded classy. This must be why she always claims she hates to hear herself speak. I wonder why Birmingham has such a bad public image.

[ThePenguin]

I LOVE Christine's accent. I always thought she sounded classy. This must be why she always claims she hates to hear herself speak. I wonder why Birmingham has such a bad public image.

From what I know, Birmingham used to be viewed as a very industrial, ugly, blue collar type place w/ few redeeming features. However if you check out various websites you can see it's been 'refurbished' in many areas and looks like a pretty decent place now. As somebody wrote about it:

********
"I have been to Birmingham - it is ok. They seem to have replaced a lot of the grottiness with modern development. But it's not a very romantic city - All modern American-style bowling allies, Starbucks, and pub-clubs etc. I could live there for a year or two with a good job."
********

So it basically sounds like any American city LOL.

Here's an interesting description of the accent-- it's amazing how many sites you can find that explain exactly WHY this accent is viewed as inferior! It's crazy!!

*************
Ozzy does ramble on in a way that most Brummies who haven't done massive amounts of drugs don't, but his sounds and his intonation are basically the way real Brummie sounds.

The most important elements of the Brummie accent are the rounding of the long I sound and the downward intonation of both words and sentence endings. Both of these elements seem to make other Brits think Brummies are unimaginative and even "thick," although Brits probably mostly think Brummie is unattractive because of the unaesthetic qualities of the cities in that area of the country.

Words like Friday start to sound like "Froyday." The "a" sound at the end of the word is also underarticulated because of the downward intonation, so it comes out sounding like "Froydeh." The "ee" sound is over pronounced though so "city" is pronounced like "si-tee" and even "si-tay" the closer one gets to the Black Koontray (Country) to the west of Birmingham. In the Black Country accent (Wolverhampton, Dudley), the "oy" sound is even more strongly pronounced although, in my opinion, the accent has more tonality to it.

The rhythm of a Brummie sentence is just as important as the pronunciation, though. Just imitating the sounds will not make you sound like a native. While it's not an atonal accent, it definitely has less tonality on a whole than RP, Estuary and most of the northern accents. I heard someone say once that the Birmingham accent is "bad" because its speakers don't open their mouth as vertically as much as southern speakers and instead keep their lips as horizontally as possible. While I disagree with the value judgment, I find that trying this helps me imitate the accent better.
****************

This whole thing is really interesting to me, i have to say. I found this website so neat:

http://www.bbc.co.uk/dna/h2g2/alabaster/A496352

Check out the papagraph where the do the phonetic pronunciation-- I can totall hear Chris saying it that way LOL.

-Lis

[NicksIllume]

I had to break out Rockline from 1988. I don't care what she thinks about her accent, but I love it. I'm trying to notice the little differences among Christine, Mick, and John's accents. :)

[macfan 57]

It's funny. I never really took note of the differences in Mick, John & Christine's accents. I always just thought of them as English accents. :laugh:

I didn't know that Ozzy Osbourne & Christine McVie were from the same city. I wonder if they knew each other. It would be kind of hard to find two people so completely different from each other. :laugh:

[ThePenguin]

It's funny. I never really took note of the differences in Mick, John & Christine's accents. I always just thought of them as English accents. :laugh:

I didn't know that Ozzy Osbourne & Christine McVie were from the same city. I wonder if they knew each other. It would be kind of hard to find two people so completely different from each other. :laugh:

I think Ozzy's speech is affected by years of drink/drug abuse and perhap the meds he is on..I don't know if I'd view his speech as a prime example of a Brummie accent. :lol:

I would love for some Brits to chime in here. ;) Help me understand the madness!!

FWIW I think Mick speaks w/ a very upper crust/posh private schools type accent, while John is just standard London English-- I think there's a term for it, it's like an abbreviation of two letters... RP or something, what does that stand for? Have to go look LOL. OK, no, RP is not the same as Standard English. goodness this is confusing.

Chris once said her father used to call his accent a 'speech impediment', isn't that sad? I think the poor people of Birmingham have/had serious self esteem issues!

Also on another note John did dsay in his Q&A how much Birmingham had changed, 'he didn't recognize the place'. I'll assume he meant that as a compliment! ;)

-Lis

[NicksIllume]

I think Ozzy's speech is affected by years of drink/drug abuse and perhap the meds he is on..I don't know if I'd view his speech as a prime example of a Brummie accent. :lol:

-Lis

It's hard to follow Ozzy. After all this time watching The Osbournes, I'm still wondering what he says half the time. :shrug:

[ThePenguin]

It's hard to follow Ozzy. After all this time watching The Osbournes, I'm still wondering what he says half the time. :shrug:

Yes, I rely on subtitles as well!! They really help!!

One thing I don't get is the contradiction of how some people say the accent is monotone (which Ozzy definitely is) while others say it has a 'lilt' which I totally think Chris has.

She does do the downward lilt at the end of most sentences though, and ends sentences on more or less the same 'tone', which apparently is a feature of the accent.

I should've been a linguist.... :o

-Lis

[NicksIllume]

Yes, I rely on subtitles as well!! They really help!!

One thing I don't get is the contradiction of how some people say the accent is monotone (which Ozzy definitely is) while others say it has a 'lilt' which I totally think Chris has.

She does do the downward lilt at the end of most sentences though, and ends sentences on more or less the same 'tone', which apparently is a feature of the accent.

I should've been a linguist.... :o

-Lis

Yes, love subtitles! I don't think Christine is monotone. Yes, you should have been a linguist...Lis the Linguist. ;)

[ThePenguin]

I'm googling out the wazzoo tonite... such cool things pop up. Here's 'Ealing Broadway'-- sort of John's home town. Looks very quaint.

http://www.ealing-web.com/ealing_broadway1.htm


And here's two interesting Birmingham sites....

http://www.frommers.com/destinations/birmingham/0489010001.html

http://www.virtualbrum.co.uk/people2.htm --Here they list famous Brummies-- Christine Perfect is all the way at the bottom, the last bloomin' name!
what the &*@&??? ggrr.

-Lis

[amber]

I'm googling out the wazzoo tonite... such cool things pop up. Here's 'Ealing Broadway'-- sort of John's home town. Looks very quaint.

http://www.ealing-web.com/ealing_broadway1.htm


And here's two interesting Birmingham sites....

http://www.frommers.com/destinations/birmingham/0489010001.html

http://www.virtualbrum.co.uk/people2.htm --Here they list famous Brummies-- Christine Perfect is all the way at the bottom, the last bloomin' name!
what the &*@&??? ggrr.

-Lis
that is so wrong. Christine is waaaaaaay deserving to be at the top with a pic!

[GateandGarden]

Yes, you should have been a linguist...Lis the Linguist. ;)Totally works. :nod:

[ThePenguin]

that is so wrong. Christine is waaaaaaay deserving to be at the top with a pic!

I would say so. Hmmph.

Did anyone notice they actally show a photo of the house Ozzy Osbourne was born in/lived at? http://www.virtualbrum.co.uk/images/aston/14lodge2.jpg


Would've liked to have seen someone else's old house.... ;)

-Lis

[WelshWitchPMD]

Well, I also love Christine's accent. I guess I am going to have to get out an old DVD and listen to the different accents.

My friend has a fiance from Birmingham and he sounds fine to me. :nod: I have seen some pics of Birmingham and it looked pretty good. I will see if my friend can email me a few and then maybe I can post a few if she doesn't mind.


It could be worse. She could have a Rhode Island accent. :eek: But it's funny because when I travel the USA people always tell me that they love my accent. :lol: :shrug:

By the way Lindsey also has an accent (Northern California?). I like his too. ;)

[macfan 57]

Well, Chris certainly deserved to have a little bio & a picture on that web page. Her friend, Steve Winwood had one. Does anyone know what Handsworth is? It says Christine Perfect from Handsworth.

[ThePenguin]

Well, Chris certainly deserved to have a little bio & a picture on that web page. Her friend, Steve Winwood had one. Does anyone know what Handsworth is? It says Christine Perfect from Handsworth.

Yeah, If Winwood and Ozzy got pics/paragraphs, she most certainly also deserved one too.

I guess Handsworth was the actual town she was from? here's a bit about the town, probably more than you wish to know LOL.

--Lis

*********************
http://www.birminghamuk.com/handsworth.htm

ooo here's a good one-- http://www.virtualbrum.co.uk/soho.htm

also:

In the Domesday Book, Handsworth was listed as a holding of William Fitz-Ansculf, the Lord of Dudley. It was part of Staffordshire until 1911 when it was incorporated into Birmingham.

The name Handsworth is of Saxon origin, from its Saxon owner Hondes and the Anglo-Saxon word weorthing meaning farm or estate. From the 13th century through to the 18th century, it remained a small village until Matthew Boulton (who lived at the nearby Soho House) set up the Soho Manufactory in 1764 on Handsworth Heath. Accommodation was built for the factory workers, the village quickly grew, and in 1851, there were over six thousand people living in the township. Forty years later over thirty-two thousand were counted at the census of 1881, and by 1911, this had more than doubled to 68,610.

The development of Handsworth was rather sporadic. The result is that many of the roads and streets have a mixture of types and periods of buildings.

*************
Almost half of Handsworth Wood Ward, in the North Western part of the City, is undeveloped, including Hilltop Golf Course and Handsworth Cemetery. The RSPB's Sandwell Valley reserve is adjacent. The River Tame flows through the ward.

Handsworth Wood Ward, formerly known as Sandwell Ward, is part of the Parliamentary Constituency of Perry Barr.

Handsworth Wood Ward comprises part of Handsworth and nearly all of Handsworth Wood. The Ward is made up of two distinct communities:

Inner City Handsworth (B21) which consists of mostly Victorian terrace properties, where Urban Renewal work has been carried out. Handsworth Wood (B20) which is mostly pre-war semi- and detached- properties.

********************

[macfan 57]

"Handsworth is well known for its riots and history of violence in the mid 1980's. The riots were caused by heavy handed policing and drug related problems in this inner city suburb. It is arguable that they really arose from poor social conditions, racial discrimination, poverty, unemployment, and dilapidated housing. Since then much has been done to improve the local amenities and housing conditions. Handsworth is now reputed to be one of the safest areas in Birmingham.

Handsworth is just 2 miles from the centre of Birmingham. Handsworth still has many high rise blocks that date from the 1960's but many of these are now disapearing in favour of more habitable and secure housing. There are still many pre-1919 properties that are a mixture of home owners and privately rented accommodation. Over half the residents of Handsworth comprise Black, Asian and other ethnic minorities."




That probably explains the poor public image at one time & why John McVie noticed that it was much improved when he was there over a year ago.

[Gailh]

Some people consider that the Brummie accent is NOT the most attractive in the world (I quite like it myself)

Just as well then that Christine doesn't have a Brummie accent.

She was born in the Lake District which is a fair distance away (to us Brits anyway) from Birmingham. I don't know when the family moved to the Midlands and maybe when she was younger she may have picked up the accent but I don't hear it now.

You can hear traces of a Northern English accent in the way she speaks. For instance the word laugh - people from the north (like me) pronounce it "laff" people from the south (where I now live) pronounce it "larf" same with bath - I pronounce it correctly :) with a short vowel sound - southern softies pronounce it "barth".

Gail

[ThePenguin]

Some people consider that the Brummie accent is NOT the most attractive in the world (I quite like myself)

Just as well then that Christine doesn't have a Brummie accent.

She was born in the Lake District which is a fair distance away (to us Brits anyway) from Birmingham. I don't know when the family moved to the Midlands and maybe when she was younger she may have picked up the accent but I don't hear it now.

You can hear traces of a Northern English accent in the way she speaks. For instance the word laugh - people from the north (like me) pronounce it "laff" people from the south (where I now live) pronounce it "larf" same with bath - I pronounce it correctly :) with a short vowel sound - southern softies pronounce it "barth".

Gail

Interesting to get a British perspective!! Thank you!! :D

Chris did once say her father hated his accent, and that she hates to hear herself talk because "I hate me Birmingham accent" --so I think she thinks she's got one?? Or maybe over the years she's sort of lost it...

Gail-- do you think her 'downward lilt' is a Brummie thing or not really?


And also on this topic- :) what accents do Mick and John have? I think both of them have pronounced the word path so it ryhmes with the southern pronunciation you described of 'barth' . I'm so curious about this nonsense!

All this makes me think of a time when I met up w a British friend of mine, when he was in NY. We went to lunch and one of the Brits in the group for some reason began to emulate a cockney accent, which had Marty and I captivated. So I think we got on the topic of accents, and I launched into something of a 'Texas drawl' and they were just as captivated LOL, the British girl said, "aahh, that's so cool!" anyway... just saying how accents are interesting conversation LOL.... to me at least!

-Lis

[NicksIllume]

Some people consider that the Brummie accent is NOT the most attractive in the world (I quite like myself)

Just as well then that Christine doesn't have a Brummie accent.

She was born in the Lake District which is a fair distance away (to us Brits anyway) from Birmingham. I don't know when the family moved to the Midlands and maybe when she was younger she may have picked up the accent but I don't hear it now.

You can hear traces of a Northern English accent in the way she speaks. For instance the word laugh - people from the north (like me) pronounce it "laff" people from the south (where I now live) pronounce it "larf" same with bath - I pronounce it correctly :) with a short vowel sound - southern softies pronounce it "barth".

Gail

A Brit perspective...interesting! :wavey:

[Gypsy-Rhiannon]

Some people consider that the Brummie accent is NOT the most attractive in the world (I quite like myself)

Just as well then that Christine doesn't have a Brummie accent.

She was born in the Lake District which is a fair distance away (to us Brits anyway) from Birmingham. I don't know when the family moved to the Midlands and maybe when she was younger she may have picked up the accent but I don't hear it now.

You can hear traces of a Northern English accent in the way she speaks. For instance the word laugh - people from the north (like me) pronounce it "laff" people from the south (where I now live) pronounce it "larf" same with bath - I pronounce it correctly :) with a short vowel sound - southern softies pronounce it "barth".

Gail
I was just about to post that she doesn't sound Brummie to me but you pipped me!

[ThePenguin]

I was just about to post that she doesn't sound Brummie to me but you pipped me!

Am I the only person who has heard her say that she hates her Birmingham accent?!

Shame that she hates it when the rest of the British world doesn't seem to think she has it. :laugh:

-Lis

[NicksIllume]

Am I the only person who has heard her say that she hates her Birmingham accent?!

Shame that she hates it when the rest of the British world doesn't seem to think she has it. :laugh:

-Lis

I've never heard her say it. When did she say it?

We should send her a gigantic card saying we love her accent, sign it, draw little glasses and bottles of wine on it, and I'm getting carried away. :woohoo:

[ThePenguin]

I've never heard her say it. When did she say it?

We should send her a gigantic card saying we love her accent, sign it, draw little glasses and bottles of wine on it, and I'm getting carried away. :woohoo:

I think it was at the beginning of the interview w/ Bob Coburn, was that his name? maybe an older Rockline? it was right at the beginning, and they guy said jokingly, "Oh, so that's not a speech impediment?" and then she made the comment about how her father said it was. Macfan, you've heard that, right??

--Lis

[wali1]

As I live in Birmingham UK, I find this conversation most amusing !

Christine doesn't sound like a Brummie to me at all, but I know she lived here for a while when she was a child. I actually drive up the road where she lived on my way back from work.

Although I didn't grow up here, I have lived here for 7 years off and on and find it a great place with lovely people. It's changed a lot in this time, they've completely reworked the city centre, and like any big city it has it's problems but there are far worse city's in the UK. Culturally, it's a great place because there's such a mixture of people.

I think a lot of people confuse the Birmingham accent with the Black Country accent which is an area about ten miles to the west of the city and is very, very strong.

Ali.

[macfan 57]

I think it was at the beginning of the interview w/ Bob Coburn, was that his name? maybe an older Rockline? it was right at the beginning, and they guy said jokingly, "Oh, so that's not a speech impediment?" and then she made the comment about how her father said it was. Macfan, you've heard that, right??

--Lis

Yes, I heard it. You didn't imagine it. :) She mentioned about her father saying it was a speech impediment. Maybe everyone from Birmingham has some sort of inferiority complex. :laugh: It's actually kind of funny that none of the Brits that have posted on this board think she still has a Birmingham accent even though she obviously thinks she does. :)

[ThePenguin]

As I live in Birmingham UK, I find this conversation most amusing !

Christine doesn't sound like a Brummie to me at all, but I know she lived here for a while when she was a child. I actually drive up the road where she lived on my way back from work.
Ali.

Well this bit of info woke me right up this morning. :laugh: How do you know she lived there? Is there a plaque on the road or something LOL? That is too cool.

Thanks for the info about Birmingham BTW!

-Lis

[Gailh]

she may have had a Brummie accent when she was younger but, along with the other Brits, I don't hear that now. Just as I said before a touch of northern every now and then.

Gail

[Gailh]

Although I didn't grow up here, I have lived here for 7 years off and on and find it a great place with lovely people. It's changed a lot in this time, they've completely reworked the city centre, and like any big city it has it's problems but there are far worse city's in the UK. Culturally, it's a great place because there's such a mixture of people.
Ali.

Let's hear it for Birmingham - home of the Balti!

Gail

[wali1]

Well this bit of info woke me right up this morning. :laugh: How do you know she lived there? Is there a plaque on the road or something LOL? That is too cool.

Thanks for the info about Birmingham BTW!

-Lis

My partner's College Lecturer is a big fan of early Mac and used one of their records (I think it was Man Of The World) during a lecture on Musical styles (or something similar, can't remember the exact topic). They got chatting about The Mac and he mentioned the road she lived on. I couldn't believe it when Ste told me. It seemed really surreal !!!

A plaque would be cool but I haven't noticed anything...I'll keep my eyes peeled ! Wouldn't it be weird if I could find out the house and take a photo :)

Ali.

[madformac]

Christine does have traces of a Birminmgham accent but it's very subtle...

It's interesting to note that in every area of the UK there are people with very strong accents and others that are less pronounced..

I grew up in Manchester but I don't believe my accent is overly strong, unlike for example Liam Gallagher of Oasis who grew up about 10 miles from myself. His voice is typical Manc.

Take Slash of Velvet Revolver too. He spent the first 11 years of his life in Stoke On Trent (very, very close to where I was born) and yet all I hear is California in his accent. Yet Robbie Williams, again from Stoke, has a classic local accent. So I think it's more environmental really. I remember reading somewhere that accents are affected by air pressure and climate too, which is why they vary from region to region.

Brummie is very strong, as are the voices of Scousers (Liverpool and Merseyside), Geordies (Newcastle and Gateshead), Cockneys (London). Plus you can get very pronounced Cornish (Cornwall) and Scottish too. Some of the Glasgow accents really do take a trained ear to decipher.

[wali1]

Let's hear it for Birmingham - home of the Balti!

Gail

Oh yes, who can forget? Worth visiting just for that ! :nod:

Ali

[aleuzzi]

I've met a number of Brits from various areas of England and noticed their different accents...I did not know, however, that the Burmmie accent was so ill-regarded. Funny: I always considered CM's accent classy and charming. But then, I'm from Rochester, NY, home of the flat vowel.

[Gailh]

I've met a number of Brits from various areas of England and noticed their different accents...I did not know, however, that the Burmmie accent was so ill-regarded. Funny: I always considered CM's accent classy and charming. But then, I'm from Rochester, NY, home of the flat vowel.

If you were trying to describe the Brummie accent you definately would NOT pick Christine as an example of it.

Ozzy Osbourne would be closest.

Gail

[aleuzzi]

Really! That's so interesting. Yeah, if a true Brummie accent can be found in Ozzy, I can see why there'd be as stigma. But even his (speaking) voice has a lot of character.

[Vianna]

I love Christine's accent=:-) I also love the way she says "bloody"! I didn't realise she had any kind of accent except Brit..

[madformac]

I love Christine's accent=:-) I also love the way she says "bloody"! I didn't realise she had any kind of accent except Brit..

It's funny because of all the UK accents I regard the word "bloody" more with brummies than any other... :nod: :wavey: