dissention
03-03-2004, 03:36 PM
Did anyone watch the midnight edition last night? I was dying because it was so hysterical!!! He had Mo Rocca on (he used to be on The Daily Show and does a lot of the commentary for I Love the 80s on VH1) and the guy is so goddamned funny. I wish they'd give him his own show. Bill Maher is going to be on tonight, too. Anyways, here's the transcript with Mo Rocca, I figured a few of you would get a kick out of it (you know who you are...):
KING: Normally this is a repeat of our earlier hour, but we have a second hour live tonight as we do on primary nights. Our guests are, in Atlanta -- all our guests are in Atlanta -- Wolf Blitzer, the anchor of CNN'S WOLF BLITZER REPORTS and LATE EDITION WITH WOLF BLITZER; Bill Schneider, CNN senior political analyst; I know what's coming -- Tucker Carlson, co-host of CNN'S CROSSFIRE, author of a terrific book, "Politicians, Partisans and Parasites: My Adventures in Cable News;" and he's back, Mo Rocca, TV personality, "Today" show commentator, new sex symbol. Look at that, Mo Rocca.
ROCCA: Oh, thank you.
KING: Mo, what's your read on tonight? I understand you were impressed with Ted Kennedy tonight.
ROCCA: Actually, I didn't know that until now, but I've always been impressed with Ted Kennedy.
KING: You didn't know that till now? My card says you were impressed wit Ted Kennedy.
ROCCA: Well, I'm just generally impressed by him. They have a beautiful place up in Hyannis Port, and another one down, I think, in Palm Beach.
I'm thinking about John Edwards right now, and you know, his message obviously didn't resonate. I think it was supposed to resonate with the working class, with people like Renee Zellweger's immigrant parents, sort of the other America, but it turned out neither of the two Americas is much interested in him.
I wish that Howard Dean had dropped out two weeks before New Hampshire, because maybe he would have won that then.
KING: I never thought of that, Mo, that's...
ROCCA: Did you ever interview Peter Finch? Because I thought of Peter Finch, because he won the posthumous Oscar for "Network."
KING: I interviewed him many years ago.
ROCCA: A great actor.
KING: "I've had enough and I won't take it anymore."
ROCCA: Yes, right.
KING: "Network."
ROCCA: Yes.
KING: What did you make of Schwarzenegger last night? Disagreeing with the president?
ROCCA: Good for him. I mean, look, we're talking about the gay marriage thing, right?
KING: Yes.
ROCCA: I think -- you know, I saw your show with Marilyn Musgrave the other day. She's the sponsor of that amendment. And I'm a huge Marilyn Musgrave fan. She was incredible in "One Few Over the Cuckoo's Nest." I thought she was great.
I think that she brought up a very good point, and the people in favor of this amendment have, that this whole slippery slope thing. And with all due respect to Arnold Schwarzenegger, we have to be careful about group marriage, which is really the next thing. It's right around the corner. It's been brought up over and over again. It's obviously on the talking points memo. But group marriages is, you know, is a real threat. I know that Wolf agrees with me here.
And it's hard enough, seriously, for one couple to agree on a china pattern when they're getting marriage, but can you image six people just bickering in the middle of Bloomingdale's, trying to agree on that? It would be horrible.
KING: So that's a genuine fear of yours, that that's what it's going to lead to.
ROCCA: It is. And then after that, seriously, this has been brought up, you've got animals and human relationships. Although I do want to sort of poke a hole in that whole theory because, you know, this is about consensual relationships and most pets don't live past the age of 18, so it's really not relevant with a cat and a dog. And quite frankly I don't think any of us are attracted to sea tortoises, which live to about 100 years ago. But these are just my musings on the subjects.
KING: It's a good point.
Someone on the staff came up with a question, then we'll go back to the calls -- Mo.
ROCCA: Sure.
KING: Which first lady was the teacher of children with hearing impairments?
ROCCA: I would say that it's either Sara Childress Polk...
KING: No.
ROCCA: Give me a clue.
KING: Her husband was a man of few words.
ROCCA: So it's Calvin Coolidge's wife, which is Grace Coolidge.
KING: Grace, that's right.
ROCCA: They had two beautiful collies. She has her collie -- her dog is in her first lady portrait. Rob Roy. It's a beautiful collie. I love "Lassie." You can see it on Discovery Kids Network. I love collies.
KING: Why do you care about White House animals?
ROCCA: Well, I think that they're -- didn't somebody once say animals are a window into someone's soul? Maybe not. I don't know.
I just want to tell you, thanking Wolf, this has been -- I have dreamed of the day that I would come to CNN Center in Atlanta, and I never thought it would happen, and it's incredible and this is like Oz. It's like Epcot Center. I just saw -- Wolf just showed me the wax Bobby Batista, which was amazing, in the Hall of Anchors. It's just incredible. And I just don't feel like I deserve to be here. But I want to thank you.
BLITZER: Larry, this is one sick puppy we got right over here.
KING: You ain't kidding -- Wolf.
ROCCA: It's been a long night.
BLITZER: I want our viewers to understand what's going on.
KING: That's why we put him on at this -- Tucker, what do you make of Mo Rocca's contribution to political punditry?
CARLSON: Well, I mean I've been here many times to CNN Center. I've never seen the wax Bobbie Batista.
ROCCA: See, Wolf showed me.
CARLSON: So it's a little annoying that Mo just shows up randomly one day and he gets to see the wax museum and as an employee I never have.
KING: Unfair.
CARLSON: Yes.
ROCCA: Wolf has a corner office. I'm just in a cubicle right now. But he gave me a wonderful Dilbert calendar.
And Bill Schneider -- you know, Larry, when you come here, if you want to use the Xerox machine you have to have a code for it. It's charged individually. So Bill lent me his and I'll be happy to pay it forward to you.
SCHNEIDER: You're welcome.
KING: Schneider, what's your read on Mr. Rocca.
ROCCA: Why has this suddenly become an analysis of me?
KING: I'm trying to get the panel's opinion of you. I subject them to you every week. They should have a right to have an opinion of you.
SCHNEIDER: I think Mr. Rocca could easily have won the Vermont primary today had he been running.
KING: A good point.
We'll take a break and come back with phone calls for Wolf Blitzer, Bill Schneider, Tucker Carlson and Mo Rocca. We don't know who in the Rocca family tipped over the crib as a child. No one has ever come forward to admit it.
We'll be right back.
(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)
JOHN KERRY, DEMOCRATIC PRESIDENTIAL CANDIDATE: Tonight the message could not be clearer. All across our country, change is coming to America.
(APPLAUSE)
Before us lie long months of effort and of challenge and we understand that. We have no illusions about the Republican attack machine and what our opponents have done in the past and what they may try to do in the future, but I know that together we are equal to this task. I am a fighter
(END VIDEO CLIP)
(COMMERCIAL BREAK)
KING: Palestine, Texas, as we go to calls for the panel -- hello.
CALLER: Hello. My question for the panel is, what is their honest opinion on the way Bush is handling his job in the first four years as president, and...
KING: Tucker is going to approve. Wolf can't give an opinion because he's an objective journalist. What's the country saying -- Bill.
SCHNEIDER: The country thinks that President Bush has strong qualities of leadership. I mentioned the word resolve. With the tax cuts he pushed through, even though the public was very wary, you know, they thought this is too risky, it might increase the deficit, they weren't sure it would help the economy. But he said we're going to do this because we have to do it to keep the economy secure, and also the Iraq War, against the entire world, President Bush went through with it, and that's a quality Americans admire. That's called leadership. They like this president.
KING: Why is his incumbent rating, though, only 50 percent?
SCHNEIDER: Because some of the policies aren't working out the way they were advertised. In Iraq, the occupation -- while the war was fine, the occupation is not going very well, and Americans are very worried about the constant death toll of Americans and Iraqis.
And probably the single biggest issue right now is jobs, jobs, jobs. He will be, as Democrats will never tire of saying, the first president since Herbert Hoover to suffer a net loss of jobs during his administration, and that's something that Americans care very deeply about.
KING: Mo Rocca, what's your thoughts on the president?
ROCCA: Well, first of all I feel badly for Herbert Hoover. He keeps getting dragged into this thing. Leave him alone.
My favorite -- I don't know -- my favorite part of the Bush presidency has been the landing on the Abraham Lincoln. I just like that. I'm a big fan of playing dress up anyway, and I hope when he goes to Amtrak he dressed up as a train conductor. And if he goes to NASA headquarters he should dress up like Buzz Lightyear. I just like that. I think it's fun. I think it just inspires people, because Piaget talks about the notion of dress up and play to broaden your imagination and so it should be encouraged, I think.
KING: That's a very good thought. It's a good idea. He does dress up like children like to do, costumes.
ROCCA: It's good, though. It expands your imagination to do that.
Do you know that Wolf just told me that the TALK BACK LIVE set is still up, so it's like Colonial Williamsburg around here. There are people that are still reenacting it. It's great.
Sherman burned down the first CNN Center in Atlanta and so it's a great testament to CNN's grit that they rebuilt it.
KING: From scratch.
Tucker, are you among those Republicans who expressed some dissatisfaction with too much give-aways in this administration, too many federal programs?
CARLSON: Yes. Absolutely. Of course. But I don't think ultimately that, you know, is the real issue.
I personally think that Bush's current problems -- this is just a snapshot in time, incidentally. It's a long time before the general election. But I think it goes back to the weapons of mass destruction in Iraq. You know, you explain a war and sell a war based on the idea this country has weapons of mass destruction. That's a consensus everybody thought at the time. But still it turns out that that's not true or not essentially true. That's a big deal.
I mean, I think it goes back to that. Democrats don't often make that case because it's kind of hard to make a case, because everybody thought they were there, but I think that rattled people because it opens up the new question, if they didn't have weapons of mass destruction, why exactly did we go. And I do think the White House could do a better job explaining that.
I think people are confused on that point. They shouldn't be. I think that's the essential problem, not jobs. I just don't buy that.
KING: Good point -- Wolf.
BLITZER: Yes, I think that's an excellent point. I think the weapons of mass destruction issue is a very important issue. There's no doubt that John Kerry and the Democrats will be using it, saying where are those stockpiles of the weapons of mass destruction. The answer the Bush administration will give is the same answer.
I interviewed the Vice President Dick Cheney earlier today in Washington. He said the hunt still continues. They may find them. They haven't found them yet. It's almost a year since the end of the war. But they will point out and ask this question in rebuttal: is the region, are the people of Iraq, is the United States better off now that Saddam Hussein is in jail as opposed to ruling Iraq? And that's an answer they will give.
KING: To Kansas City, Kansas -- hello.
CALLER: I'd like to ask Bill how the turnout has been in the primaries and whether he thinks a high turnout in November can help the Democrats makeup some of those narrow margins of victory in the 2000 election?
SCHNEIDER: Well, the turnout, as far as I can tell -- we don't have the final figures today -- it's been a little bit higher than usual, but not extraordinary. It's been a respectable turnout, but I don't see people flocking to the polls in huge numbers.
As far as November is concerned, look, there is a theory that if each party can turn out its base, that the part that turns out their base better can win, and that may be why Bush endorsed the constitutional amendment, to try to turnout the religious right that Carl Rove worries did not show up in adequate numbers.
There is even a theory there are no swing voters anymore. There are only a Republican base and a Democratic base. I don't buy that for one minute. There are plenty of voters who are just detached from politics and pay very little attention and who could swing one way or the other.
You could have a lot of surprises and a lot of sudden developments in this campaign. Suppose Osama bin Laden suddenly turns up dead or alive? Suppose there's a trial of Saddam Hussein? There are lots of things that could happen in this campaign. Alan Greenspan through a monkey wrench the other day by suddenly saying the deficit threatens Social Security, and suddenly that's an issue.
KING: Mo, you expect a big turnout in November? ROCCA: Oh, sure. Yes. A lot of it depends I suppose -- I'm curious to see how the vice presidential pick works out. That should add or take away excitement, I suppose.
KING: Who do you favor?
ROCCA: Well, you know, I suspect that Kerry will probably ask Ryan Seacrest, but I think that Ryan Seacrest is probably too busy right now because he's got a talk show and then he's got that radio show and then the "American Idol" thing.
So Bill Richardson will probably be it. Hasn't he been like clamoring for it for years? He really wants it bad. He wants it bad. He really wants that vice presidential nod.
KING: St. Louis -- hello.
CALLER: Yes. Is there a chance that there will be a woman on the Democratic ticket this year?
KING: Anybody think so -- Tucker.
CARLSON: I don't know why not. I don't know why John Kerry wouldn't ask Mrs. Clinton to run. I mean, by all accounts she's beloved in the Democratic Party. She's tough. I don't know. One is always hearing about how competent she is, how great she is, how much people just adore Mrs. Clinton and how loyal she is to the Democratic Party. And that last point is obviously true. She is loyal to the Democratic Party. So I don't know why she would turn it down if asked and I don't know why he would not ask her.
KING: By the way, she was very nice to you -- Tucker.
CARLSON: She absolutely was. I've got nothing at all personally against Mrs. Clinton. I want her to run.
KING: If it were Kerry-Clinton, from a Republican standpoint, would that be formidable?
CARLSON: I think it would be interesting. I mean, more to the point I think it would be a really interesting ticket and I must say I'd like to hear John Kerry explain why she wouldn't be his No. 1 pick. She seems obvious to me. Why wouldn't he pick her? Why would he just pick some senator you never heard of, a safe choice who's going to help carry a state. Why not her?
KING: Mo, you like first ladies. What do you think of picking a first lady to run for president or vice percent?
ROCCA: You mean Hillary Clinton?
KING: Yes, Hillary.
ROCCA: I don't know. I think she'd probably be really ticked off, wouldn't she? I don't know. It's like the biggest thing Jack Kennedy feared in 1956 was that Adelaide Stevenson would ask him to be his vice presidential running mate because it would have really handicapped his prospects, probably, for becoming president in 1960.
So I think that there could be nothing worse. It would be a curse, wouldn't it?
KING: We'll take a break and be back. A curse if he loses. We'll take a break and be back with our remaining moments with this interesting group. Don't go away.
(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)
JOHN EDWARDS, DEMOCRATIC PRESIDENTIAL CANDIDATE: Because the truth is, and all of you know it, our campaign has never been about the politics of cynicism. It's about the politics of hope. It's about the politics of what's possible, and I am proud of the fact that you and I together have brought these issues back to the American debate, race, equality, civil rights, poverty, all of these issues that the American people care deeply about. We have touched their souls again. They feel these issues. We have been the "Little Engine That Could" and I am proud of what we've done together, you and I.
(END VIDEO CLIP)
(COMMERCIAL BREAK)
KING: Boca Raton, Florida -- hello.
CALLER: Hi, how are you -- Larry.
KING: Fine.
CALLER: I'd like to ask a question of Tucker and then Mo.
KING: Go ahead.
CALLER: Tucker, do you think worth profiteering in the Carlisle Group will be made part of the campaign issue? James Baker, Frank Carlucci (ph), George Bush, John Majors, they're all partners over there.
And Mo, you spoke earlier about the dress up game and it's true, George Bush on May 3, 2003 was at United Defense, which manufactures the Bradley fighting vehicle., And I would think every time one of these blows up, these people profit from it. Edo you think this will be an issue.
KING: OK. That's a weird question.
CARLSON: It is a weird question, but I hear it all the time. I mean, it's big with the LaRouche campaign. He's running again. He's out of prison. But also in more mainstream circles. There is this idea that we went to war in Iraq to benefit a handful of companies like Halliburton.
I think it's a terrific issue because it's insane. It's a conspiracy theory and it's also kind of skirting the real issue. I mean there is an honest and I think important debate about when should we invade countries, under what circumstances, and all of that is sort of lost art in this ludicrous clamor about Halliburton and the Carlisle Group. I mean, who cares. I think the Democrats ought to run on it. Good luck.
KING: You want to answer your part, Tucker, if you understood it. I mean Mo.
ROCCA: It was about a tank factory and dressing up at a tank factory. With all due respect, I'm going to understand.
Yes, I don't know what costume he wore at the tank factory. I'm assuming he didn't wear like the Dukakis helmet, because that sort of went out a while ago, although the 80's are sort of back in, so maybe it is hot again.
KING: Who knows.
New York City -- hello.
CALLER: How do you do -- Larry.
KING: Hi.
CALLER: The Federal Marriage Amendment not only bans gay marriage, but for the first time in history it would dictate that state courts had to interpret their own state constitutions, even with respect to civil unions. i
Why is no one -- especially all those supposed state rights advocates -- spoken out against this?
KING: Bill?
SCHNEIDER: There was a time when he says he thought it should be left to the states and that's an inconsistency that will be brought up.
I believe the Musgrave version of that does allow states to pass legislation, but not any legislation that will define marriage as admissible under the Constitution. It will say -- the federal constitution will say marriage, the specific word marriage, shall be reserved for a union between one man and one woman. Interesting point, Americans are fairly sympathetic to the idea of gay civil unions, but not gay marriage. Why? What's the difference?
Well, as far as we can tell, the word marriage implies to most people approval. Americans will express tolerance of homosexuals, but they won't express approval. And a marriage appears to mean to many Americans, to most Americans, approval.
KING: Why is she one of your favorites, Mo, Congresswoman Musgrave?
ROCCA: Well, you know, I said that I thought her performance in "One Flew Over the Cuckoo's Nest" was amazing. I think that she has a very compelling, alluring way about her, and I think that, you know, there is something irresistibly sweet about this constitutional amendment.
I have to spend more time with her. There is something just sort of seductive about her. Hugs.
KING: We get it. It's a crush.
ROCCA: Yes, it's a crush.
KING: OK, Wolf. Where does -- what happens...
(CROSSTALK)
BLITZER: I think Mo, Larry, is going to be flying to Colorado right from here in Atlanta. He wants to see her that bad.
ROCCA: I am, but first, though, you promised that you were going to show me the animatronics Bernie Shaw exhibit down the hall, so I'm not leaving until I get to see that.
BLITZER: We're going to go on a tour, Larry, when we're done tonight.
ROCCA: Larry, you have got to come here. It is so much fun. I'm serious. We really miss you here. Which camera am I looking at.
KING: It's like a ride.
We have about a minute, Wolf. Where is John Kerry going tomorrow?
BLITZER: Florida. Florida is going to be a huge state to have a primary next Tuesday, which now of course becomes moot. But in November, Florida will be a critical state. We're going to see both of these candidates, President Bush and Senator Kerry, spending a lot of time in Florida in the coming weeks and months.
ROCCA: Larry, I have a question. Can I ask it?
KING: Yes.
ROCCA: I'm tired of talking about politics. I TiVo'ed "Body and Soul" with John Garfield and "Elmer Gantry" with Burt Lancaster. Which should I watch first?
KING: "Body and Soul." It was earlier, and then you could do it chronologically.
ROCCA: OK. Thanks. Did you ever interview John Garfield?
KING: No. He died when I was a young man, but he was one of my favorite actors.
ROCCA: Yes, terrific. All right. KING: Burt Lancaster was on this show a few times.
ROCCA: You're kidding, wow.
KING: No, I'm not kidding.
KING: Normally this is a repeat of our earlier hour, but we have a second hour live tonight as we do on primary nights. Our guests are, in Atlanta -- all our guests are in Atlanta -- Wolf Blitzer, the anchor of CNN'S WOLF BLITZER REPORTS and LATE EDITION WITH WOLF BLITZER; Bill Schneider, CNN senior political analyst; I know what's coming -- Tucker Carlson, co-host of CNN'S CROSSFIRE, author of a terrific book, "Politicians, Partisans and Parasites: My Adventures in Cable News;" and he's back, Mo Rocca, TV personality, "Today" show commentator, new sex symbol. Look at that, Mo Rocca.
ROCCA: Oh, thank you.
KING: Mo, what's your read on tonight? I understand you were impressed with Ted Kennedy tonight.
ROCCA: Actually, I didn't know that until now, but I've always been impressed with Ted Kennedy.
KING: You didn't know that till now? My card says you were impressed wit Ted Kennedy.
ROCCA: Well, I'm just generally impressed by him. They have a beautiful place up in Hyannis Port, and another one down, I think, in Palm Beach.
I'm thinking about John Edwards right now, and you know, his message obviously didn't resonate. I think it was supposed to resonate with the working class, with people like Renee Zellweger's immigrant parents, sort of the other America, but it turned out neither of the two Americas is much interested in him.
I wish that Howard Dean had dropped out two weeks before New Hampshire, because maybe he would have won that then.
KING: I never thought of that, Mo, that's...
ROCCA: Did you ever interview Peter Finch? Because I thought of Peter Finch, because he won the posthumous Oscar for "Network."
KING: I interviewed him many years ago.
ROCCA: A great actor.
KING: "I've had enough and I won't take it anymore."
ROCCA: Yes, right.
KING: "Network."
ROCCA: Yes.
KING: What did you make of Schwarzenegger last night? Disagreeing with the president?
ROCCA: Good for him. I mean, look, we're talking about the gay marriage thing, right?
KING: Yes.
ROCCA: I think -- you know, I saw your show with Marilyn Musgrave the other day. She's the sponsor of that amendment. And I'm a huge Marilyn Musgrave fan. She was incredible in "One Few Over the Cuckoo's Nest." I thought she was great.
I think that she brought up a very good point, and the people in favor of this amendment have, that this whole slippery slope thing. And with all due respect to Arnold Schwarzenegger, we have to be careful about group marriage, which is really the next thing. It's right around the corner. It's been brought up over and over again. It's obviously on the talking points memo. But group marriages is, you know, is a real threat. I know that Wolf agrees with me here.
And it's hard enough, seriously, for one couple to agree on a china pattern when they're getting marriage, but can you image six people just bickering in the middle of Bloomingdale's, trying to agree on that? It would be horrible.
KING: So that's a genuine fear of yours, that that's what it's going to lead to.
ROCCA: It is. And then after that, seriously, this has been brought up, you've got animals and human relationships. Although I do want to sort of poke a hole in that whole theory because, you know, this is about consensual relationships and most pets don't live past the age of 18, so it's really not relevant with a cat and a dog. And quite frankly I don't think any of us are attracted to sea tortoises, which live to about 100 years ago. But these are just my musings on the subjects.
KING: It's a good point.
Someone on the staff came up with a question, then we'll go back to the calls -- Mo.
ROCCA: Sure.
KING: Which first lady was the teacher of children with hearing impairments?
ROCCA: I would say that it's either Sara Childress Polk...
KING: No.
ROCCA: Give me a clue.
KING: Her husband was a man of few words.
ROCCA: So it's Calvin Coolidge's wife, which is Grace Coolidge.
KING: Grace, that's right.
ROCCA: They had two beautiful collies. She has her collie -- her dog is in her first lady portrait. Rob Roy. It's a beautiful collie. I love "Lassie." You can see it on Discovery Kids Network. I love collies.
KING: Why do you care about White House animals?
ROCCA: Well, I think that they're -- didn't somebody once say animals are a window into someone's soul? Maybe not. I don't know.
I just want to tell you, thanking Wolf, this has been -- I have dreamed of the day that I would come to CNN Center in Atlanta, and I never thought it would happen, and it's incredible and this is like Oz. It's like Epcot Center. I just saw -- Wolf just showed me the wax Bobby Batista, which was amazing, in the Hall of Anchors. It's just incredible. And I just don't feel like I deserve to be here. But I want to thank you.
BLITZER: Larry, this is one sick puppy we got right over here.
KING: You ain't kidding -- Wolf.
ROCCA: It's been a long night.
BLITZER: I want our viewers to understand what's going on.
KING: That's why we put him on at this -- Tucker, what do you make of Mo Rocca's contribution to political punditry?
CARLSON: Well, I mean I've been here many times to CNN Center. I've never seen the wax Bobbie Batista.
ROCCA: See, Wolf showed me.
CARLSON: So it's a little annoying that Mo just shows up randomly one day and he gets to see the wax museum and as an employee I never have.
KING: Unfair.
CARLSON: Yes.
ROCCA: Wolf has a corner office. I'm just in a cubicle right now. But he gave me a wonderful Dilbert calendar.
And Bill Schneider -- you know, Larry, when you come here, if you want to use the Xerox machine you have to have a code for it. It's charged individually. So Bill lent me his and I'll be happy to pay it forward to you.
SCHNEIDER: You're welcome.
KING: Schneider, what's your read on Mr. Rocca.
ROCCA: Why has this suddenly become an analysis of me?
KING: I'm trying to get the panel's opinion of you. I subject them to you every week. They should have a right to have an opinion of you.
SCHNEIDER: I think Mr. Rocca could easily have won the Vermont primary today had he been running.
KING: A good point.
We'll take a break and come back with phone calls for Wolf Blitzer, Bill Schneider, Tucker Carlson and Mo Rocca. We don't know who in the Rocca family tipped over the crib as a child. No one has ever come forward to admit it.
We'll be right back.
(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)
JOHN KERRY, DEMOCRATIC PRESIDENTIAL CANDIDATE: Tonight the message could not be clearer. All across our country, change is coming to America.
(APPLAUSE)
Before us lie long months of effort and of challenge and we understand that. We have no illusions about the Republican attack machine and what our opponents have done in the past and what they may try to do in the future, but I know that together we are equal to this task. I am a fighter
(END VIDEO CLIP)
(COMMERCIAL BREAK)
KING: Palestine, Texas, as we go to calls for the panel -- hello.
CALLER: Hello. My question for the panel is, what is their honest opinion on the way Bush is handling his job in the first four years as president, and...
KING: Tucker is going to approve. Wolf can't give an opinion because he's an objective journalist. What's the country saying -- Bill.
SCHNEIDER: The country thinks that President Bush has strong qualities of leadership. I mentioned the word resolve. With the tax cuts he pushed through, even though the public was very wary, you know, they thought this is too risky, it might increase the deficit, they weren't sure it would help the economy. But he said we're going to do this because we have to do it to keep the economy secure, and also the Iraq War, against the entire world, President Bush went through with it, and that's a quality Americans admire. That's called leadership. They like this president.
KING: Why is his incumbent rating, though, only 50 percent?
SCHNEIDER: Because some of the policies aren't working out the way they were advertised. In Iraq, the occupation -- while the war was fine, the occupation is not going very well, and Americans are very worried about the constant death toll of Americans and Iraqis.
And probably the single biggest issue right now is jobs, jobs, jobs. He will be, as Democrats will never tire of saying, the first president since Herbert Hoover to suffer a net loss of jobs during his administration, and that's something that Americans care very deeply about.
KING: Mo Rocca, what's your thoughts on the president?
ROCCA: Well, first of all I feel badly for Herbert Hoover. He keeps getting dragged into this thing. Leave him alone.
My favorite -- I don't know -- my favorite part of the Bush presidency has been the landing on the Abraham Lincoln. I just like that. I'm a big fan of playing dress up anyway, and I hope when he goes to Amtrak he dressed up as a train conductor. And if he goes to NASA headquarters he should dress up like Buzz Lightyear. I just like that. I think it's fun. I think it just inspires people, because Piaget talks about the notion of dress up and play to broaden your imagination and so it should be encouraged, I think.
KING: That's a very good thought. It's a good idea. He does dress up like children like to do, costumes.
ROCCA: It's good, though. It expands your imagination to do that.
Do you know that Wolf just told me that the TALK BACK LIVE set is still up, so it's like Colonial Williamsburg around here. There are people that are still reenacting it. It's great.
Sherman burned down the first CNN Center in Atlanta and so it's a great testament to CNN's grit that they rebuilt it.
KING: From scratch.
Tucker, are you among those Republicans who expressed some dissatisfaction with too much give-aways in this administration, too many federal programs?
CARLSON: Yes. Absolutely. Of course. But I don't think ultimately that, you know, is the real issue.
I personally think that Bush's current problems -- this is just a snapshot in time, incidentally. It's a long time before the general election. But I think it goes back to the weapons of mass destruction in Iraq. You know, you explain a war and sell a war based on the idea this country has weapons of mass destruction. That's a consensus everybody thought at the time. But still it turns out that that's not true or not essentially true. That's a big deal.
I mean, I think it goes back to that. Democrats don't often make that case because it's kind of hard to make a case, because everybody thought they were there, but I think that rattled people because it opens up the new question, if they didn't have weapons of mass destruction, why exactly did we go. And I do think the White House could do a better job explaining that.
I think people are confused on that point. They shouldn't be. I think that's the essential problem, not jobs. I just don't buy that.
KING: Good point -- Wolf.
BLITZER: Yes, I think that's an excellent point. I think the weapons of mass destruction issue is a very important issue. There's no doubt that John Kerry and the Democrats will be using it, saying where are those stockpiles of the weapons of mass destruction. The answer the Bush administration will give is the same answer.
I interviewed the Vice President Dick Cheney earlier today in Washington. He said the hunt still continues. They may find them. They haven't found them yet. It's almost a year since the end of the war. But they will point out and ask this question in rebuttal: is the region, are the people of Iraq, is the United States better off now that Saddam Hussein is in jail as opposed to ruling Iraq? And that's an answer they will give.
KING: To Kansas City, Kansas -- hello.
CALLER: I'd like to ask Bill how the turnout has been in the primaries and whether he thinks a high turnout in November can help the Democrats makeup some of those narrow margins of victory in the 2000 election?
SCHNEIDER: Well, the turnout, as far as I can tell -- we don't have the final figures today -- it's been a little bit higher than usual, but not extraordinary. It's been a respectable turnout, but I don't see people flocking to the polls in huge numbers.
As far as November is concerned, look, there is a theory that if each party can turn out its base, that the part that turns out their base better can win, and that may be why Bush endorsed the constitutional amendment, to try to turnout the religious right that Carl Rove worries did not show up in adequate numbers.
There is even a theory there are no swing voters anymore. There are only a Republican base and a Democratic base. I don't buy that for one minute. There are plenty of voters who are just detached from politics and pay very little attention and who could swing one way or the other.
You could have a lot of surprises and a lot of sudden developments in this campaign. Suppose Osama bin Laden suddenly turns up dead or alive? Suppose there's a trial of Saddam Hussein? There are lots of things that could happen in this campaign. Alan Greenspan through a monkey wrench the other day by suddenly saying the deficit threatens Social Security, and suddenly that's an issue.
KING: Mo, you expect a big turnout in November? ROCCA: Oh, sure. Yes. A lot of it depends I suppose -- I'm curious to see how the vice presidential pick works out. That should add or take away excitement, I suppose.
KING: Who do you favor?
ROCCA: Well, you know, I suspect that Kerry will probably ask Ryan Seacrest, but I think that Ryan Seacrest is probably too busy right now because he's got a talk show and then he's got that radio show and then the "American Idol" thing.
So Bill Richardson will probably be it. Hasn't he been like clamoring for it for years? He really wants it bad. He wants it bad. He really wants that vice presidential nod.
KING: St. Louis -- hello.
CALLER: Yes. Is there a chance that there will be a woman on the Democratic ticket this year?
KING: Anybody think so -- Tucker.
CARLSON: I don't know why not. I don't know why John Kerry wouldn't ask Mrs. Clinton to run. I mean, by all accounts she's beloved in the Democratic Party. She's tough. I don't know. One is always hearing about how competent she is, how great she is, how much people just adore Mrs. Clinton and how loyal she is to the Democratic Party. And that last point is obviously true. She is loyal to the Democratic Party. So I don't know why she would turn it down if asked and I don't know why he would not ask her.
KING: By the way, she was very nice to you -- Tucker.
CARLSON: She absolutely was. I've got nothing at all personally against Mrs. Clinton. I want her to run.
KING: If it were Kerry-Clinton, from a Republican standpoint, would that be formidable?
CARLSON: I think it would be interesting. I mean, more to the point I think it would be a really interesting ticket and I must say I'd like to hear John Kerry explain why she wouldn't be his No. 1 pick. She seems obvious to me. Why wouldn't he pick her? Why would he just pick some senator you never heard of, a safe choice who's going to help carry a state. Why not her?
KING: Mo, you like first ladies. What do you think of picking a first lady to run for president or vice percent?
ROCCA: You mean Hillary Clinton?
KING: Yes, Hillary.
ROCCA: I don't know. I think she'd probably be really ticked off, wouldn't she? I don't know. It's like the biggest thing Jack Kennedy feared in 1956 was that Adelaide Stevenson would ask him to be his vice presidential running mate because it would have really handicapped his prospects, probably, for becoming president in 1960.
So I think that there could be nothing worse. It would be a curse, wouldn't it?
KING: We'll take a break and be back. A curse if he loses. We'll take a break and be back with our remaining moments with this interesting group. Don't go away.
(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)
JOHN EDWARDS, DEMOCRATIC PRESIDENTIAL CANDIDATE: Because the truth is, and all of you know it, our campaign has never been about the politics of cynicism. It's about the politics of hope. It's about the politics of what's possible, and I am proud of the fact that you and I together have brought these issues back to the American debate, race, equality, civil rights, poverty, all of these issues that the American people care deeply about. We have touched their souls again. They feel these issues. We have been the "Little Engine That Could" and I am proud of what we've done together, you and I.
(END VIDEO CLIP)
(COMMERCIAL BREAK)
KING: Boca Raton, Florida -- hello.
CALLER: Hi, how are you -- Larry.
KING: Fine.
CALLER: I'd like to ask a question of Tucker and then Mo.
KING: Go ahead.
CALLER: Tucker, do you think worth profiteering in the Carlisle Group will be made part of the campaign issue? James Baker, Frank Carlucci (ph), George Bush, John Majors, they're all partners over there.
And Mo, you spoke earlier about the dress up game and it's true, George Bush on May 3, 2003 was at United Defense, which manufactures the Bradley fighting vehicle., And I would think every time one of these blows up, these people profit from it. Edo you think this will be an issue.
KING: OK. That's a weird question.
CARLSON: It is a weird question, but I hear it all the time. I mean, it's big with the LaRouche campaign. He's running again. He's out of prison. But also in more mainstream circles. There is this idea that we went to war in Iraq to benefit a handful of companies like Halliburton.
I think it's a terrific issue because it's insane. It's a conspiracy theory and it's also kind of skirting the real issue. I mean there is an honest and I think important debate about when should we invade countries, under what circumstances, and all of that is sort of lost art in this ludicrous clamor about Halliburton and the Carlisle Group. I mean, who cares. I think the Democrats ought to run on it. Good luck.
KING: You want to answer your part, Tucker, if you understood it. I mean Mo.
ROCCA: It was about a tank factory and dressing up at a tank factory. With all due respect, I'm going to understand.
Yes, I don't know what costume he wore at the tank factory. I'm assuming he didn't wear like the Dukakis helmet, because that sort of went out a while ago, although the 80's are sort of back in, so maybe it is hot again.
KING: Who knows.
New York City -- hello.
CALLER: How do you do -- Larry.
KING: Hi.
CALLER: The Federal Marriage Amendment not only bans gay marriage, but for the first time in history it would dictate that state courts had to interpret their own state constitutions, even with respect to civil unions. i
Why is no one -- especially all those supposed state rights advocates -- spoken out against this?
KING: Bill?
SCHNEIDER: There was a time when he says he thought it should be left to the states and that's an inconsistency that will be brought up.
I believe the Musgrave version of that does allow states to pass legislation, but not any legislation that will define marriage as admissible under the Constitution. It will say -- the federal constitution will say marriage, the specific word marriage, shall be reserved for a union between one man and one woman. Interesting point, Americans are fairly sympathetic to the idea of gay civil unions, but not gay marriage. Why? What's the difference?
Well, as far as we can tell, the word marriage implies to most people approval. Americans will express tolerance of homosexuals, but they won't express approval. And a marriage appears to mean to many Americans, to most Americans, approval.
KING: Why is she one of your favorites, Mo, Congresswoman Musgrave?
ROCCA: Well, you know, I said that I thought her performance in "One Flew Over the Cuckoo's Nest" was amazing. I think that she has a very compelling, alluring way about her, and I think that, you know, there is something irresistibly sweet about this constitutional amendment.
I have to spend more time with her. There is something just sort of seductive about her. Hugs.
KING: We get it. It's a crush.
ROCCA: Yes, it's a crush.
KING: OK, Wolf. Where does -- what happens...
(CROSSTALK)
BLITZER: I think Mo, Larry, is going to be flying to Colorado right from here in Atlanta. He wants to see her that bad.
ROCCA: I am, but first, though, you promised that you were going to show me the animatronics Bernie Shaw exhibit down the hall, so I'm not leaving until I get to see that.
BLITZER: We're going to go on a tour, Larry, when we're done tonight.
ROCCA: Larry, you have got to come here. It is so much fun. I'm serious. We really miss you here. Which camera am I looking at.
KING: It's like a ride.
We have about a minute, Wolf. Where is John Kerry going tomorrow?
BLITZER: Florida. Florida is going to be a huge state to have a primary next Tuesday, which now of course becomes moot. But in November, Florida will be a critical state. We're going to see both of these candidates, President Bush and Senator Kerry, spending a lot of time in Florida in the coming weeks and months.
ROCCA: Larry, I have a question. Can I ask it?
KING: Yes.
ROCCA: I'm tired of talking about politics. I TiVo'ed "Body and Soul" with John Garfield and "Elmer Gantry" with Burt Lancaster. Which should I watch first?
KING: "Body and Soul." It was earlier, and then you could do it chronologically.
ROCCA: OK. Thanks. Did you ever interview John Garfield?
KING: No. He died when I was a young man, but he was one of my favorite actors.
ROCCA: Yes, terrific. All right. KING: Burt Lancaster was on this show a few times.
ROCCA: You're kidding, wow.
KING: No, I'm not kidding.