Kiln House

[wondergirl9847]

Well, I just finished listening to Kiln House on LP. It's the only copy of KH I have. Here are my thoughts:

1. This is the Rock - Rockabilly! This is right out of the 1950's! I like it. I give it an 8.

2. Station Man - I've never liked the vocals on this, but that riff is way cool. :nod: This one's a 6.

3. Blood on the Floor - Country!! LOL Jeremy trips me out, he's such a unique singer/entertainer. I give it a 5.

4. Hi Ho Silver - Very bluesy 50's. Eh. How about a 4.

5. Jewel Eyed Judy - I LOVE THIS SONG! Danny is just awesome!! 10 all the way!!

6. Buddy's Song - Sounds just like BH and the Crickets! I give it a 5.

7. Earl Gray - This reminds me of the Charlie Brown cartoons, for some reason. I love it...9.

8. One Together - Reminds me of the Monkees, Mike Nesmith in particular. My 2nd fave JS song on here. 8

9. Tell Me All the Things You Do - A rockin DK song!! Gotta love that riff!! 9

10. Mission Bell - Another Monkees-sounding song. It's really pretty and I like the bells. 8

Overall, a pretty nice lil album. :thumbsup: Now, I just need it on CD!

[chiliD]

Originally posted by wondergirl9847
6. Buddy's Song - Sounds just like BH and the Crickets! I give it a 5.

It is SUPPOSED to sound like Buddy Holly...hence the title. Ingenious how Jeremy took all those Buddy Holly lyrics from different songs and made ONE song out of 'em...AND they made sense. It is the GEM of the album! Anything less than a 10 is scandalous!

[wondergirl9847]

The tone of that sentence was fact as opposed to surprise. LOL!!

[chiliD]

Sorry, the "5" threw me. :laugh:

[greenfire]

I'm not just saying this just to agree, but, "Buddy's Song" was my favorite also. I do agree with Wondergirl, I liked the music to "Station Man" but for some reason the vocals didn't quite work for me. I remember enjoying "One Together" and "Mission Bell", but can't quite remember how "Tell Me All The Things You Do"...goes. I have a vague memory, so I think it was a bit more of a rocking song. Yeah, and the "Blood on the Floor" was neat, just for Jermemy's vocal approach to the song. "Earl Grey" was an ok instrumental but once I heard "Sunny Side of Heaven", it's hard to put that in the same league. Also, I loved the cover art. I wonder why they never had Chris do more of the covers. She not only had musical talent but could draw. These are all just my opinons, feel free to disagree!

[Cristian]

Isn't "One Together" supposed to sound like Buddy Holly and the Crickets, too? I just love that one - it's my favorite off that album, and I believe I'm one of the few supporters of the fact that Jeremy actually wrote a fantastic, almost melancholic lyric, changing all this Elmore James impersonation-thing he was always doing.

I'm also a huge fan of "Buddy's Song" and (most of all) "Jewel Eyed Judy" which I find to be a treasure.

Your description of "Earl Grey" was strangely enough, how I feel about that song. It's sounds like a Charlie Brown cartoon... love it. "This Is The Rock" is a good tune.

This album has more good songs than I remembered! :nod:




Song of the moment - Brown Eyes

[macfan 57]

I think Kiln House is a nice little album, too, although I do prefer Fleetwood Mac after Chris & Bob joined. I think I like it even better now since I've heard some of these songs live on the Madison Blues box set. Station Man is my favorite and I do like the vocals on this song. I'm not normally a big fan of Jeremy, but I actually like his songs on here, especially "Blood On The Floor". I also like "Mission Bell " & "One Together". "Tell Me All The Things You Do" & "Jewel Eyed Judy" are also good. There are no songs on the album that I'd give a 10, but there aren't any that I would give less than a 5 or 6. It's a nice little album that is fun to listen to. I agree with greenfire about the cover. It's definitely my favorite Fleetwood Mac album cover. I can usually find something new that I never noticed before every time I look at the LP cover.

[dansven]

Kiln House is very dear to me, I love it!
But as many of you say, it's a nice, LITTLE album. A couple of extra Danny Kirwan songs would have been great.

But the album shows that the band "played on", and it does not deserve the bad reviews they got.

Daniel

[BklynBlue]

ChiliD wrote,
"Ingenious how Jeremy took all those Buddy Holly lyrics from different songs and made ONE song out of 'em..."

Actually, "Buddy's Song" is not a Spencer original. Like most of the songs he sang, whether in studio or in concert, it was a cover.
Though usually credited to Holly, it seems it first appeared on a 1963 album, "I Remember Buddy Holly" by teen idol, Bobby Vee.
Although no composer credit was listed, the title change on "Hi Ho Silver" did little to hide the fact that it was Big Joe Turner's song and Johnny Burnette's arrangement.
Which in no way detracts from what Spencer brought to these numbers. I too, enjoy these versions - and much of his work with Fleetwood Mac.
I would have much preferred he dug a little deeper into Elmore James' catalog, as not everything James recorded utilized the riff from "Dust My Broom"!
I've often wondered why Mike Vernon didn't use "I Held My Baby Last Night" for Mr. Wonderful -
and though they were concert staples from their first shows on , they apparently never cut "My Baby's Sweet" or "Talk to Me Baby" for a studio LP or single while with Blue Horizon (I know they cut the latter for "Blues Jam In Chicago" - but it was too late by then.)
Jeremy's "audition" tracks (which no one can seem to confirm) "Mean Old Fireman" and "Allow Me One More Show" along with the released "Believe My Time Ain't Long" are a much better representation of his abilities as a guitarist and it's a shame he wasn't encouraged to follow this direction - another missed opportunity.

[chiliD]

Originally posted by BklynBlue
Actually, "Buddy's Song" is not a Spencer original. Like most of the songs he sang, whether in studio or in concert, it was a cover.

Though usually credited to Holly, it seems it first appeared on a 1963 album, "I Remember Buddy Holly" by teen idol, Bobby Vee.

WOW! Thanks, didn't know that. From all the interviews I've read, Jeremy has always intimated that he'd wrote it. I guess that was just his insecurity coming through.

Was that the album that Bobby Vee was backed by the Crickets?

[SteveMacD]

Originally posted by dansven
Kiln House is very dear to me, I love it!
But as many of you say, it's a nice, LITTLE album. A couple of extra Danny Kirwan songs would have been great.

But the album shows that the band "played on", and it does not deserve the bad reviews they got.


I think "little" is in reference to the rather short length of the album, especially when compared to "Then Play On" before and "Future Games" after. It's a very structured, song-based album. It's not the thinking man's Fleetwood Mac, which is fine by me.

[BklynBlue]

Originally posted by chiliD

Was that the album that Bobby Vee was backed by the Crickets? [/B]

That was a year earlier, different label - "Bobby Vee Meets the Crickets" - (Capitol 1962)
the origins of Jeremy's songs can be really hard to track down -I just found out that the song "Shelia" from one of the BBC sessions, (another Buddy Holly sound-alike) was a hit for Tommy Roe in 1961 -
Even I was too young for that one, but I do remember (though with no great fondness) Roe's 1969 chart-topper "Dizzy"

You mention Spencer's insecurity, I think that's why he chose to do his parodies - how can they fault you if you don't take the number seriously yourself?
It's really too bad that it is so difficult to see past the Elmore James covers and Teen Idol spoofs as I think his contributions deserve a second look - especially the amount of (uncredited) piano work he did during their BBC tapings -
Favorite forgotten track of the moment: "I'm So Lonesome And Blue", a BBC track from "Show-Biz Blues". I just love Green's guitar work on this one (laugh if you want)- I think they really found the right balance between sticking a finger in the eye of the genre and still turning out a real song -

[wondergirl9847]

I think you get to see Jeremy's "real" side on his solo recordings. :nod:

[chiliD]

Originally posted by BklynBlue
I just found out that the song "Shelia" from one of the BBC sessions, (another Buddy Holly sound-alike) was a hit for Tommy Roe in 1961 -
Even I was too young for that one, but I do remember (though with no great fondness) Roe's 1969 chart-topper "Dizzy"

"Sheila"---just GOTTA love that "Peggy Sue" type gallop beat...I could listen to that drum beat by itself for hours!! :nod:

"Dizzy"---{cold shudder} EWWWWW!!!!! :distress:

Originally posted by BklynBlue
Favorite forgotten track of the moment: "I'm So Lonesome And Blue", a BBC track from "Show-Biz Blues". I just love Green's guitar work on this one (laugh if you want)- I think they really found the right balance between sticking a finger in the eye of the genre and still turning out a real song -

I've gotta listen to disc one more often...I get out that set and immediately head to disc two everytime. :laugh:

Originally posted by wondergirl9847
I think you get to see Jeremy's "real" side on his solo recordings.

Jeremy's done so many parodies, how can we really TELL what's his "real" side?? Even the Flee album...side one is so overboardly Disco, is it "real" or a parody of the genre...even side two...was he really into a sound that paralleled the then current Fleetwood Mac or was he parodying his old band's sound? It's tough to tell what is what. Even his Jeremy Spencer & The Children album...he "borrows" so heavily from other bands' sounds (CSNY, Beatles, Jefferson Airplane, etc), is that really HIS sound or again, a parody or mimicing a certain sound or genre? :shrug:

[wondergirl9847]

Good point. Well, I guess I was looking at it as he wasn't Elvis or Buddy Holly, etc...so I figured he really fell into the cult so perhaps those recordings were him....but you could be right.

Who knows? :shrug:

[BklynBlue]

I guess the real difference with Jeremy's performances, compared to Green's, is that his goal seems to be to replicate the sound of the original, down to the vocal inflections, thereby blurring the distinction of the singer's sincerity.
The songs where he just sings as himself, are the ones where Spencer shines most strongly. Even his playing becomes more expansive, as if he's shed a self-imposed straitjacket -
his covers of Homesick James Williamson's songs, like "Got To Move" and "My Baby Is Sweet", I think are more successful than his Elmore James numbers -
He recreates the power of Son House's playing on "Preachin'" but he does not try to sing like him - Fifties rock 'n roll like "Honey Hush" or even "Bo Diddley", and I would bet he used Buddy Holly's recording as his template, work best because he just sang them as himself -
those are no more "parodies" than Green singing "Tallahassee Lassie" or "Jenny Jenny" -
and even Green could fall into that trap of trying to hard to reproduce a vocal style - his take on "You Need Love" really suffers from that.

[dansven]

Originally posted by SteveMacD
I think "little" is in reference to the rather short length of the album, especially when compared to "Then Play On" before and "Future Games" after. It's a very structured, song-based album. It's not the thinking man's Fleetwood Mac, which is fine by me.

Yes, it was the lenght of it I was referring to, by saying that a couple of extra Kirwan songs would been good. How about Down At The Crown aka Doin' Alright? Maybe on the new version??

It may also be a little album in music history, but it wasn't actually that I was thinking about - it was the lenght of it :)

Daniel

[greenfire]

I guess one of the biggest surprises for me with Kiln House was the sound of Jeremy's voice. He just sounded so different to me than his vocals on Blues Jam or "dog n' dustbin", etc. I know he was trying to do some different impersonations than on previious albums, like the Elvis "This Is The Rock" and Country Western on "Blood On The Floor" or Buddy Holly on "Buddy's Song", but still his voice just had a different tone than what I had heard before. I'm not describing this in a negative way but in a positive. Again only my personal observation, but I liked his vocals best on this album better to those on any of the previous ones.

[chiliD]

Good point. Jeremy probably thought that he had to "show himself" more because he didn't have Peter Green there to be the upfront guy. Jeremy could just take on any persona he wanted due to all the attention that Peter got. Since Danny wasn't all that strong of a personality to take the "frontman" reins, Jeremy had to show a more "real" side of himself. Which obviously (I assume) became to much for him. (and the same thing later with Danny, it seems)

[sharksfan2000]

Just listened to Jeremy's "Mean Old Fireman" from The Original Fleetwood Mac album, for the first time in quite awhile. Now that's a much different vocal style on that track than he uses on his other blues songs - sounds more like the "real" Jeremy.

I'm sure I've heard Jeremy do that song (probably live) under a different title, but I can't think of what it is - anyone know? Seems basically a variation on Otis Rush's "So Many Roads", but I think that "mean old fireman, cruel old engineer" line pops up in other songs too, right? Or maybe I'm just hallucinating again :)

[BklynBlue]

Originally posted by sharksfan2000
Just listened to Jeremy's "Mean Old Fireman" from The Original Fleetwood Mac album, for the first time in quite awhile. Now that's a much different vocal style on that track than he uses on his other blues songs - sounds more like the "real" Jeremy.
I'm sure I've heard Jeremy do that song (probably live) under a different title, but I can't think of what it is - anyone know? Seems basically a variation on Otis Rush's "So Many Roads", but I think that "mean old fireman, cruel old engineer" line pops up in other songs too, right? Or maybe I'm just hallucinating again :)


It is not just his singing that's a revelation on that track, it's his guitar skills.
Jeremy's ability on acoustic guitar was never really given any attention. I think that is a shame -
in interviews with various people over the years, and ones that he himself has given, it's been said that he was basically a lazy sod - but you have to wonder, if Vernon had asked him to try a number, would he have refused?
If he had complete carte blanche in the studio, why didn't he ever push to record any of his "rock and roll" numbers?
There was so much more to the first line-up, Danny included, that went untapped - you get to hear a little of it in the BBC
recordings but there was just so much potential that went unused...

Aside from being a "train song", I don't think it really has that much in common with Rush's "So Many Roads, So Many Trains".
The liner notes to the box set credit it to Arthur "Big Boy" Crudup, but I don't think that's correct.
I'm not an expert on Crudup (or anything else, for that matter) but the only "train song" I know by him is "Mean Old 'Frisco Blues" -
There are thousands of train blues, and to me, it sounds like Jeremy did what many a bluesman did: take various images, lines, or even whole verses from disparate sources and combine in a new way and call it your own -
If anyone has an vinyl pressing of "Original Fleetwood Mac" I'd be curious if that was the composer credit on there too.

[sharksfan2000]

Originally posted by BklynBlue
Aside from being a "train song", I don't think it really has that much in common with
The liner notes to the box set credit it to Arthur "Big Boy" Crudup, but I don't think that's correct.
I'm not an expert on Crudup (or anything else, for that matter) but the only "train song" I know by him is "Mean Old 'Frisco Blues" -
There are thousands of train blues, and to me, it sounds like Jeremy did what many a bluesman did: take various images, lines, or even whole verses from disparate sources and combine in a new way and call it your own -
If anyone has an vinyl pressing of "Original Fleetwood Mac" I'd be curious if that was the composer credit on there too.
I'm sure you're right about Otis Rush's "So Many Roads, So Many Trains". I think I'm just remembering that one line about "mean old fireman, cruel old engineer". I'm pretty sure I have the vinyl Original Fleetwood Mac at home - I'll see if I can check the credit for that song later.

[chiliD]

Originally posted by BklynBlue
There was so much more to the first line-up, Danny included, that went untapped - you get to hear a little of it in the BBC
recordings but there was just so much potential that went unused...

Unfortunately, that can be said about a couple of other incarnations of Fleetwood Mac, as well:

Billy Burnette & Rick Vito were painfully under-utilized as songwriters (as one can hear in the outtakes of the Behind The Mask album )

And, the overall "reinventing" of Fleetwood Mac for the Time album...Bekka & Billy could've been the next "Buckingham Nicks" had they been left to their own devices and not been forced to BE "Buckingham Nicks".

Ok, off my soapbox...now back to the Kiln House thread. :laugh:

[sharksfan2000]

Originally posted by BklynBlue
The liner notes to the box set credit it ("Mean Old Fireman") to Arthur "Big Boy" Crudup, but I don't think that's correct.
If anyone has an vinyl pressing of "Original Fleetwood Mac" I'd be curious if that was the composer credit on there too.
The credit on the vinyl LP is "Traditional - arranged by Jeremy Spencer".

[HomerMcvie]

And, the overall "reinventing" of Fleetwood Mac for the Time album...Bekka & Billy could've been the next "Buckingham Nicks" had they been left to their own devices and not been forced to BE "Buckingham Nicks".
I've said this from the git go! I honestly think Bekka could've been a BIG FM star, if she were only given the chance. It's a damned shame she wasn't.:distress:

[dansven]

I actually prefer the BBC version of "Hi Ho Silver", I think the sound of Jeremy 's guitar on the studio version is a bit too heavy. How about you people?? :)

[sharksfan2000]

Originally posted by dansven
I actually prefer the BBC version of "Hi Ho Silver", I think the sound of Jeremy 's guitar on the studio version is a bit too heavy. How about you people?? :)
I just listened to both of them (the BBC version has the original title of "Honey Hush" - by Big Joe Turner, as BklynBlue poinetd out earlier in this tread). Hadn't listened to them back-to-back before. I'd give the edge to the BBC one also, although the heavier guitar sound on the Kiln House version doesn't really bother me. Danny's backing vocals on the Kiln House version do bother me, though, and I find the ones on Live at the BBC are easier for me to take. Overall the BBC version just seems more "natural", less "produced", which is what you'd expect. I think that looser feel works in favor of this song.

I assume the liner notes on Live at the BBC are incorrect and that this track was recorded after Peter left the band. It was broadcast on 22 August 1970. Is that Christine on piano?

[P90pup]

I have to disagree about some assesments of Station Man.
Most guitarists will say this was Danny's post Peter tour de force!
It was. Danny and Jeremy were together NOT synched vocalists.
Who cares??? These were some master FWM riffs....period!

ChiliD, I agree with you about Jeremy and the Children. Most
of those songs could have been at home on either Kiln House
or Bare Trees. Jeremy's best stuff...and playing (kinda like Danny). I wish I still had that one.