Tonight's Debate On MSNBC!

[dissention]

All I have to say is...

Carol Moseley Braun kicked some MAJOR ASS!!!!!!

:nod:

[GardenStateGirlie]

I do hope that aside from watching this, you watched Alias. Perhaps we need to start an Alias thread because OMG did I totally know Lauren was in on it?!? I think I did :nod:

[gldstwmn]

Originally posted by dissention
All I have to say is...

Carol Moseley Braun kicked some MAJOR ASS!!!!!!

:nod:

Sh*t. I missed it. It's probably on CSPAN. I'll watch it later.

[dissention]

Originally posted by GardenStateGirlie
I do hope that aside from watching this, you watched Alias. Perhaps we need to start an Alias thread because OMG did I totally know Lauren was in on it?!? I think I did :nod:

I'll bump up the Alias thread I started...

ONCE I GET OVER MY HEART ATTACK!!!!!!!!!!!!!

They took her eggs!!! :eek:

[gldstwmn]

The debate is on out here now. They all look soooo tired.

[dissention]

Originally posted by gldstwmn
The debate is on out here now. They all look soooo tired.

Kerry got a haircut. :laugh: :nod:

Watch for Carol, she really gives it to them!!!!

[gldstwmn]

What the hell was Dean doing asking questions to the audience? And why no Wesley?
Kerry brought up the Diebold voting machine problem. Kudos to him. He's the first one I've heard mention that.

[dissention]

Originally posted by gldstwmn
What the hell was Dean doing asking questions to the audience? And why no Wesley?
Kerry brought up the Diebold voting machine problem. Kudos to him. He's the first one I've heard mention that.

Wesley isn't campaigning for the caucuses, is he? They invited him to the debate but he said no.

Kerry just got the endorsement of 27 reps and state senators in Iowa. :nod: He's starting to really gain some ground.

Sharpton really stuck it to Dean. BIG TIME. And then Carol pulled out a can of whoop-ass on them. :laugh:

[gldstwmn]

Clark was in NH campaigning for the primary.

[CarneVaca]

Gldstwmn, hey, I see you're still supporting Kerry. He's very sad. He's trying to pull a Clinton during the debate by walking forward on stage, then gets in the shadows where the camera can't quite pick him up. He goes on Meet the Press earlier in the day and Tim Russert, not exactly an aggressive questioner, skewers him over his position on Iraq and his attacks on Dean.

If I remember correctly, Tim rightly pointed out that Kerry blasted Dean for saying the capture of Saddam wouldn't stop the terrorist attacks. Or something like that. Then Tim points out that Kerry not only voted for the resolution giving Bush the go ahead to start the war but also has said that Iraq has turned into a hotbed for terrorists since the war. Tim rightly asked him how he can reconcile these obviously inconsistent positions. Kerry counters with some lame nonsense about context, and by the time he gets to his second sentence, you can actually hear a collective yawn from two thirds of the viewing audience echoing across America. How truly sad. Pack it up, Johnny boy, time to go home.

Braun made some excellent points during the debate, even coming to the defense of Dean and sparring with Sharpton. She's got integrity. I bet she'll play a role in the Dean administration.

[dissention]

Originally posted by CarneVaca
Braun made some excellent points during the debate, even coming to the defense of Dean and sparring with Sharpton. She's got integrity. I bet she'll play a role in the Dean administration.

I adore Braun; she's a class-act. :nod: I would hope that she plays a part in any forthcoming Democratic administration, even though I can't stand Dean.

I love John Kerry, but lately it seems like he's unsure about a lot of things. He looks like a deer caught in the headlights. I do hope that he picks himself up, though, because I like him very much (I should, I voted for him for Senator).

I think Dean will die a quick death in the coming month. He's toast. And us Democrats need to wise up and realize that his nomination will be political suicide; the Bush-ites will eat him alive.

[Merf]

Originally posted by dissention


I think Dean will die a quick death in the coming month. He's toast. And us Democrats need to wise up and realize that his nomination will be political suicide; the Bush-ites will eat him alive.

THIS democrat will not be voting for Dean in her primary (which is not until May, so is in fact, useless). Still not sure who I'm voting for but it WON'T be Dean. I'm leaning towards Wesley Clark.

[GypsySorcerer]

I'm relatively new to he board, but I thought I'd jump into the political postings anyway. :)



I did not watch the debate, but I cannot stand Mosely-Braun. I'm from Illinois and we, unfortunately, had her as a Senator. I can tell you she treated those of us from Southern Illinois abhorrently. Hey, I know we play second fiddle to Chicago, but she was over the top. She was elected to represent the entire state, not just the greater Chicago area. She wasn't extremely popular, because the next election, she lost to Peter Fitzgerald. And he is a pretty big dud too. (And I say that as a moderate Republican!):laugh:

~Krista

[dissention]

Originally posted by GypsySorcerer
She wasn't extremely popular, because the next election, she lost to Peter Fitzgerald.

Yeah, but she only lost by 2% of the vote. Part of the reason she lost re-election was because of the mud-slinging from the right over her trip to Nigeria. That got out of hand.

[CarneVaca]

Originally posted by dissention
I think Dean will die a quick death in the coming month. He's toast. And us Democrats need to wise up and realize that his nomination will be political suicide; the Bush-ites will eat him alive.

I don't think so, dude. And we should all hope that's not the case. Do you think Gephardt would fare better? He's the only one who's shown some signs of life lately, and he's never going to get the nomination. No Capitol Hill Democrat will.

It's Dean or bust. See, no one else can excite the passion of the liberal Democrats. And he's not even a real liberal!

[strandinthewind]

Originally posted by CarneVaca
I don't think so, dude. And we should all hope that's not the case. Do you think Gephardt would fare better? He's the only one who's shown some signs of life lately, and he's never going to get the nomination. No Capitol Hill Democrat will.

It's Dean or bust. See, no one else can excite the passion of the liberal Democrats. And he's not even a real liberal!

I agree (don't fall over :laugh: ) Dean has tapped into somewhing I think is not yet known or completely understood. I mean I know hard core Republicans that are gravitating toward Dean. I'm like WTF? :laugh:

Perhaps its because when Clinton ran against the first Bush, there were like 50 webpages TOTAL and now there are like 50 billion world wide.

Note: I am not saying Dean is the be all and end all of anything. I am just saying that for the moment and the relevant past he has been, for whatever reason, able to stir up people far more than anyone else.

[dissention]

Originally posted by CarneVaca
I don't think so, dude. And we should all hope that's not the case. Do you think Gephardt would fare better? He's the only one who's shown some signs of life lately, and he's never going to get the nomination. No Capitol Hill Democrat will.

It's Dean or bust. See, no one else can excite the passion of the liberal Democrats. And he's not even a real liberal!

You're absolutely right, but if he gets the nomination, we'll have another four years of Bush. They are chomping at the bit to get at Dean.

And no, he's not a liberal: he's a Democrat in a Republican's clothing. :nod:

[CarneVaca]

Dissention, I hate to disagree with you because you are usually so right. (I know what it's like to be right most of the time; I share that burden, just ask Mrs. Carne. ;) ) But here's the thing, Dean is not perfect. No way. I am concerned about his campaign's intransigence on the sealed documents. I hope there is nothing so damning to undo him at this stage, for it would be a real shame. As far as shooting his mouth off, I don't worry so much about that. That shouldn't surprise anyone, considering my record here.

But what he has shown is something the other candidates seem to lack -- leadership. Now more than ever in my lifetime we need a real leader. Let's get rid of the bozo in office right now and put someone who can truly lead in there. Like it or not, Senators and Congressmen don't tend to make great leaders. Of course there are exceptions. But the nature of their roles is often about compromising.

Don't be so sure Dean can't beat Bush. If you really think about it, he's really the most Bush-like of the anti-Bushes, except he's a lot sharper than Bush.

Strand, see, that wasn't so painful, was it?

[dissention]

Originally posted by CarneVaca
Dissention, I hate to disagree with you because you are usually so right. (I know what it's like to be right most of the time; I share that burden, just ask Mrs. Carne. ;) ) But here's the thing, Dean is not perfect. No way. I am concerned about his campaign's intransigence on the sealed documents. I hope there is nothing so damning to undo him at this stage, for it would be a real shame. As far as shooting his mouth off, I don't worry so much about that. That shouldn't surprise anyone, considering my record here.

But what he has shown is something the other candidates seem to lack -- leadership. Now more than ever in my lifetime we need a real leader. Let's get rid of the bozo in office right now and put someone who can truly lead in there. Like it or not, Senators and Congressmen don't tend to make great leaders. Of course there are exceptions. But the nature of their roles is often about compromising.

Don't be so sure Dean can't beat Bush. If you really think about it, he's really the most Bush-like of the anti-Bushes, except he's a lot sharper than Bush.

Strand, see, that wasn't so painful, was it?

Well thank you, it means a lot coming from you. :laugh: :D

You pretty much posted the main reason why I believe the Republicans want a crack at him: those sealed documents. I think they know what are in those documents and they can't wait to use them. I think it's very telling that the Republicans are keeping pretty mum about Dean and the other candidates.

I will be the first to cast a vote for Dean if he gets the nomination. I don't like him, but anything is better than Shrub. I just think that the conservatives have a lot of ammo against him and are preparing to use ALL of it. :)

[strandinthewind]

Originally posted by CarneVaca
Strand, see, that wasn't so painful, was it?

:laugh: No - it was not!!!

Also, I say Dean has a chance because history demonstrates little known govenors (Carter and Clinton) have won against sitting Republican Presidents. I know all situations are factually different (Carter had Watergate and Clinton had the whole read mmy lips fisaco), but the fact that like Dean they were little known govenors from fairly politically irrelevant states is kind of creepy in this light.

[CarneVaca]

Strand, what you say has some validity. In those cases, the voters latched on to something they saw in the candidate, call it the leadership thing, at a time when despair and frustration was high. This Iraq thing, though most Americans claimed they favored the war, is going to be Bush's undoing, in addition to a faltering economy. The more evidence that surfaces showing the American public has been had, the more it will benefit Dean.

See, eventually Americans do the right thing. Unfortunately a lot of damage gets done while they wait around to be convinced.

Dudes, I gotta do some work now...

[dissention]

Originally posted by CarneVaca
The more evidence that surfaces showing the American public has been had, the more it will benefit Dean.

I pray you're right. :)

[strandinthewind]

Originally posted by dissention
I pray you're right. :)

Me too - although my cast iron stomach can take W, I cannot stomach Ashcroft and his religious bigotry in the slightest :laugh:

[gldstwmn]

Originally posted by CarneVaca
Gldstwmn, hey, I see you're still supporting Kerry. He's very sad. He's trying to pull a Clinton during the debate by walking forward on stage, then gets in the shadows where the camera can't quite pick him up. He goes on Meet the Press earlier in the day and Tim Russert, not exactly an aggressive questioner, skewers him over his position on Iraq and his attacks on Dean.

If I remember correctly, Tim rightly pointed out that Kerry blasted Dean for saying the capture of Saddam wouldn't stop the terrorist attacks. Or something like that. Then Tim points out that Kerry not only voted for the resolution giving Bush the go ahead to start the war but also has said that Iraq has turned into a hotbed for terrorists since the war. Tim rightly asked him how he can reconcile these obviously inconsistent positions. Kerry counters with some lame nonsense about context, and by the time he gets to his second sentence, you can actually hear a collective yawn from two thirds of the viewing audience echoing across America. How truly sad. Pack it up, Johnny boy, time to go home.

Braun made some excellent points during the debate, even coming to the defense of Dean and sparring with Sharpton. She's got integrity. I bet she'll play a role in the Dean administration.

Clark, baby. Although I do still like Mr. Kerry very much. In fact, I like all of them except for HoDe.

[gldstwmn]

Originally posted by GypsySorcerer
I'm relatively new to he board, but I thought I'd jump into the political postings anyway. :)



I did not watch the debate, but I cannot stand Mosely-Braun. I'm from Illinois and we, unfortunately, had her as a Senator. I can tell you she treated those of us from Southern Illinois abhorrently. Hey, I know we play second fiddle to Chicago, but she was over the top. She was elected to represent the entire state, not just the greater Chicago area. She wasn't extremely popular, because the next election, she lost to Peter Fitzgerald. And he is a pretty big dud too. (And I say that as a moderate Republican!):laugh:

~Krista

Is this the same Fitzgerald that was appointed special prosecutor in the Wilson/Plame investigation? Please do tell us more about Carol Moseley Braun. :)

[gldstwmn]

Originally posted by CarneVaca
I don't think so, dude. And we should all hope that's not the case. Do you think Gephardt would fare better? He's the only one who's shown some signs of life lately, and he's never going to get the nomination. No Capitol Hill Democrat will.

It's Dean or bust. See, no one else can excite the passion of the liberal Democrats. And he's not even a real liberal!

Clark has been moving up quite a bit in the polls. In fact, last night they said he was running in a dead heat in NH. The Dems are going to nominate Wesley Clark.

[gldstwmn]

Originally posted by strandinthewind
:laugh: No - it was not!!!

Also, I say Dean has a chance because history demonstrates little known govenors (Carter and Clinton) have won against sitting Republican Presidents. I know all situations are factually different (Carter had Watergate and Clinton had the whole read mmy lips fisaco), but the fact that like Dean they were little known govenors from fairly politically irrelevant states is kind of creepy in this light.

They're not gonna let that Yankee be president.:laugh:

[gldstwmn]

Originally posted by CarneVaca
Strand, what you say has some validity. In those cases, the voters latched on to something they saw in the candidate, call it the leadership thing, at a time when despair and frustration was high. This Iraq thing, though most Americans claimed they favored the war, is going to be Bush's undoing, in addition to a faltering economy.

Yup.

[gldstwmn]

By the way, does anyone remember who won the NH primary in 2000?

[strandinthewind]

Originally posted by gldstwmn
They're not gonna let that Yankee be president.:laugh:

He says tongue in cheek - "Finally - some sense outa you!!!" :laugh:

I think Clark may very well get the nomination. But, I also think it will be either Dean or Clark. Out of the two, I think Clark is a stronger candidate. But, Dean has that whole unknown internet fan base (LIKE STEVIE :laugh: ) going for him. So, we shall see in about two weeks.

[strandinthewind]

Originally posted by CarneVaca
Strand, what you say has some validity. In those cases, the voters latched on to something they saw in the candidate, call it the leadership thing, at a time when despair and frustration was high. This Iraq thing, though most Americans claimed they favored the war, is going to be Bush's undoing, in addition to a faltering economy. The more evidence that surfaces showing the American public has been had, the more it will benefit Dean.

See, eventually Americans do the right thing. Unfortunately a lot of damage gets done while they wait around to be convinced.

Dudes, I gotta do some work now...

I agree. However, I think that for many, including myself, favoring the war, perhaps for the reasons I have repeatedly suggested in other threads, and what has happened are not inconsistent. For example, W's lie about the nuclear stuff and America's apparent lack of any stated or readily discernable exit strategy much less any stated or readily discernable plan for rebuilding Iraq in a manner that the world could go "Wow - look at the good America did" is awful and a reason not to reelect him and his cronies. But, as we and others have gone back and forth about, it does not change my opinion that the removal of SH was justified. It just makes me think the current administration did it a lot like the three stogges would have done it and for that they should be ousted :laugh: I think a lot of people are like me and, hopefully, that will be enough to stop W's reelection.

[gldstwmn]

Originally posted by strandinthewind
He says tongue in cheek - "Finally - some sense outa you!!!" :laugh:

I think Clark may very well get the nomination. But, I also think it will be either Dean or Clark. Out of the two, I think Clark is a stronger candidate. But, Dean has that whole unknown internet fan base (LIKE STEVIE :laugh: ) going for him. So, we shall see in about two weeks.

One primary does not a president make. I think we'll start to have a pretty good blueprint by Super Tuesday.:)
BTW, Paul Tsongas won NH in '00.

[strandinthewind]

Originally posted by gldstwmn
One primary does not a president make. I think we'll start to have a pretty good blueprint by Super Tuesday.:)
BTW, Paul Tsongas won NH in '00.

Who :laugh:

I agree, I mean W got slammed in New Hampshire didn't he?

[gldstwmn]

Originally posted by strandinthewind
Who :laugh:

I agree, I mean W got slammed in New Hampshire didn't he?

I'm sure he did, although I can't really remember. When "Live free or die" is your state motto, you know they're not messing around.

[strandinthewind]

OMG - I was just on CNN's website at the "Blanco's inaugural: New image, old problems" at
http://www.cnn.com/2004/ALLPOLITICS/01/12/blanco.inauguration.ap/index.html

Interestingly, I used to date her daughter a little bit in high school!! Gov. Blanco is a very nice lady and I am happy she won, but boy does she have an uphill battle.

Anyway, this video comes on and it is "Bush's Greatest Hits" and was just a slam on the current administration. I think the site for it is here http://www.bushin30seconds.org/people/?aol=1&email=

I hope this works. It is worth checking out.

[GypsySorcerer]

W got slammed in New Hampshire didn't he?

He did in the primaries I think, but I'm pretty sure NH was the only New England state Bush won in the election. Doesn't matter... Just kind of ironic.

~Krista

[gldstwmn]

Originally posted by GypsySorcerer
He did in the primaries I think, but I'm pretty sure NH was the only New England state Bush won in the election. Doesn't matter... Just kind of ironic.

~Krista

Bush actually won Rhode Island as well. I was shocked.

[gldstwmn]

Originally posted by strandinthewind
OMG - I was just on CNN's website at the "Blanco's inaugural: New image, old problems" at
http://www.cnn.com/2004/ALLPOLITICS/01/12/blanco.inauguration.ap/index.html

Interestingly, I used to date her daughter a little bit in high school!! Gov. Blanco is a very nice lady and I am happy she won, but boy does she have an uphill battle.

Anyway, this video comes on and it is "Bush's Greatest Hits" and was just a slam on the current administration. I think the site for it is here http://www.bushin30seconds.org/people/?aol=1&email=

I hope this works. It is worth checking out.

Who cut 66 million dollars from the charity hospital's budget?

Bush in 30 seconds is one of my favorites.:)

[dissention]

Originally posted by gldstwmn
Bush actually won Rhode Island as well. I was shocked.

I was stunned myself.

I live two houses down from the school that held the voting on Election Day and there were people lined up from my house into the center of town trying to get people to vote for Gore. I was one of 'em. :laugh: I still have my picket, actually...

[Rob67]

Originally posted by strandinthewind
I agree. However, I think that for many, including myself, favoring the war, perhaps for the reasons I have repeatedly suggested in other threads, and what has happened are not inconsistent. For example, W's lie about the nuclear stuff and America's apparent lack of any stated or readily discernable exit strategy much less any stated or readily discernable plan for rebuilding Iraq in a manner that the world could go "Wow - look at the good America did" is awful and a reason not to reelect him and his cronies. But, as we and others have gone back and forth about, it does not change my opinion that the removal of SH was justified. It just makes me think the current administration did it a lot like the three stogges would have done it and for that they should be ousted :laugh: I think a lot of people are like me and, hopefully, that will be enough to stop W's reelection.

Valid points, although, unfortunately, the Dems aren't really helping the cause with the group that is currently running...I don't see a Presidential candidate among them. God help us if Dean gets elected....

Rob:cool:

[gldstwmn]

Originally posted by dissention
I was stunned myself.

I live two houses down from the school that held the voting on Election Day and there were people lined up from my house into the center of town trying to get people to vote for Gore. I was one of 'em. :laugh: I still have my picket, actually...

Carne thinks because I raised the voting machine issue, that I'm backing Kerry. I was just glad that someone got it out there. Have you heard about these damn things?

[dissention]

Originally posted by gldstwmn
Carne thinks because I raised the voting machine issue, that I'm backing Kerry. I was just glad that someone got it out there. Have you heard about these damn things?

Not much about them, unfortunately. What's the deal?

I will firmly stand and say that I'm a Kerry supporter. I think he'd do a bang-up job as president.

[dissention]

:eek:

Oh...my...christ.

Dean just committed suicide: he said he has much admiration for Bush Sr.

[Rob67]

Originally posted by dissention
:eek:

Oh...my...christ.

Dean just committed suicide: he said he has much admiration for Bush Sr.

:eek: is right...in what context did he say this?

Rob:cool:

[gldstwmn]

Originally posted by dissention
:eek:

Oh...my...christ.

Dean just committed suicide: he said he has much admiration for Bush Sr.

:rolleyes: Howard just goes with the wind.

Check out www.blackboxvoting.com for the skinny on the Diebold voting machines.

[CarneVaca]

A few things:

First, I'm pretty sure Paul Tsongas was dead in 2000. Bradley, who was the better candidate by far, was running against Gore.

I'm sorry, Gldstwmn, but Clark is Clinton Lite. I've had enough of Clintons, and I don't think we need the diet version either.

Dean it is for me.

As for this:

Originally posted by Rob67
God help us if Dean gets elected....

If there is a god, and I have my doubts, she sure as hell (ooops) would be helping us if Dean got elected.

[gldstwmn]

[QUOTE]Originally posted by CarneVaca
[B]A few things:

First, I'm pretty sure Paul Tsongas was dead in 2000. Bradley, who was the better candidate by far, was running against Gore.

I'm sorry, Gldstwmn, but Clark is Clinton Lite. I've had enough of Clintons, and I don't think we need the diet version either.

Dean it is for me. [B] [QUOTE]

Oh make no mistake, I will end up voting for Dean if I have to. Paul Tsongas may have been dead but he did win the NH primary. I was just pointing out that this thing could go any way right now.
My problem with Dean is his lack of foreign policy skills, which is what you have with the current administration. When you have that, I think you end up with someone else's foreign policy agenda. From everything we've seen and heard the last few days, that definitely seems to be the case with the Bush, Cheney, Rumsfeld, Wolfowitz and Perle junta. Since Howard has decided to forego public funding, I'm just wondering who he might owe favors to. Of course, I realize that this is going to be the case with a lot of them. Pick your path and you pray. :)

[gldstwmn]

Originally posted by CarneVaca


If there is a god, and I have my doubts, she sure as hell (ooops) would be helping us if Dean got elected.

Paganism? Cool.:cool: :nod: