Let's Talk...Edge of Seventeen

[dissention]

So, what do you think it's about; what's your interpretation of it? Every fan you talk to has a completely different take on it (at least in my experience!), so give us yours. :D Here's mine:

We all know that the inspiration behind it is the passing of Both Stevie's uncle, John, and John Lennon.

He was no more...than a baby then
Well he... seemed broken hearted...
something within him
But the moment...that I first laid...
Eyes...on...him...all alone...
On the edge of...seventeen

This is the part that gets to me the most. I think what she's trying to say in this verse is that when she would visit her uncle, she would see him laying in bed dying and he was as helpless as a baby when it came to his illness. He "seemed broken hearted" about the way in which he was passing (the pain and the shame of having to die in such a condition), but "something within him" was at peace with it. However, when Stevie looks down on him, she sees him all alone in his suffering and she sees him as innocent, just as someone on the cusp of seventeen would be; fragile, vulnerable, and naive.

I went today...maybe I will go again...
tomorrow
And the music there it was hauntingly...
familiar
And I see you doing...
what I try to do for me
With the words from a poet...
and the voice from a choir
And a melody...nothing else mattered

She visits him, but the pain of doing so makes her question whether or not she wants to put herself in that same situation once more. When she's there, the chill in the air reminds her of great heartache. She sees her uncle trying to be at peace with his pain, which is something she is trying to do but can't.

The clouds...never expect it...
when it rains
But the sea changes colours...
but the sea...
Does not change
And so...with the slow...graceful flow..
of age
I went forth...with an age old...
desire...to please
On the edge of...seventeen

A person never expects it when such tragedy comes into their life. The tragedy alters things for the time being, but doesn't alter the course of destiny. Now that Stevie is older and wiser, she recognizes the innocence that came with being young and wants to be just as innocent again in order to please her loved ones, like her uncle is innocent.

Well then suddenly...
there was no one...left standing
In the hall...yeah, yeah...
In a flood of tears
That no one really ever heard fall at all
Oh I went searchin' for an answer...
Up the stairs...and down the hall
Not to find an answer...
just to hear the call
Of a nightbird...singing...
come away...come away...

Stevie has said that she was all alone with her uncle when he passed and that she ran throughout the house looking ofr anyone else. She questions herself as she does this, asking why it happened. She realizes that his spirit (the nightbird) is going to a better place and she hears it call out to her in her distress.

Well I hear you in the morning...
and I hear you...
At nightfall...
sometime to be near you...
Is to be unable...to hear you...
my love...
I'm a few years older than you...
are (I'm a few years older than you) my love

She feels the presence of the spirit(s) all the time. Her spirit goes on, while the others have drifted away to another place. Beautiful verse!!

Anyways, that's my interpretation of it! :wavey:

[gldstwmn]

I think the "ooh" part refers to the rattle when that last breath leaves someone's body.

[dissention]

Originally posted by gldstwmn
I think the "ooh" part refers to the rattle when that last breath leaves someone's body.

:eek:

Ick! That made my skin crawl! :laugh: j/k

[gldstwmn]

Originally posted by dissention
:eek:

Ick! That made my skin crawl! :laugh: j/k

Sorry! That wasn't my intention. I remember some interview with her saying something about hearing his last breath. I figure that's how it is incorporated into the song.

[dissention]

Originally posted by gldstwmn
Sorry! That wasn't my intention. I remember some interview with her saying something about hearing his last breath. I figure that's how it is incorporated into the song.

:laugh:

It was just SO blunt, doll!

Now that you mention it, though, it does make sense. :)

[darklinensuit]

Originally posted by dissention
However, when Stevie looks down on him, she sees him all alone in his suffering and she sees him as innocent, just as someone on the cusp of seventeen would be; fragile, vulnerable, and naive.
[/B]

Interesting. I never thought of it that way, but hey, leave it to Stevie to find sixteen-year-olds innocent.:)

- Jake

[sodascouts]

Originally posted by gldstwmn
I think the "ooh" part refers to the rattle when that last breath leaves someone's body.

Woah. Never thought of it that way before. I may never be able to listen to it in the same way again!

[Lorraine]

I don't really have an interpretation of it, I just love the song, I think this would go down very well if it was re-released by Stevie, we haven't had a good 'rock' song released by a a female artist for a while, what do you guys say?

I just love her husky, voice and love the way she uses it to portray her ups and downs in life, she really does get the message across when she is mad about something. I LOVE HER!

Lorraine :)

[darklinensuit]

Originally posted by Lorraine
I LOVE HER!

Lorraine :)

You came to the right place.:wavey:

- Jake

[ricohv]

Have you guys ever noticed this: everytime I've seen her giving the insider's scoop on that song (a la VH1 Storytellers) she talks about the dove and how thwy nest in Seguaro cactus in Arizona and the story of the two Johns, but that reallly doesn't explain the bulk of the song, especially the title! And I swear long ago I read somewhere that she said the song was actually called the "age" of seventeen, but when Tom Petty's wife Jane heard the demo and in her big southern drawl repeated the title it sounded like she said "edge" so as a little insider's joke (?) or tip of the hat to Jane (?) she renamed the song "edge of seventen". Which does seem like a weird thing to do for someone who is so protective of their art and for such a serious (aren't they all?) song.
Anyone else heard this? It might even be alluded to in the liner notes of BellaDonna (I think the article mentioned this) but I haven't actually seen those for a LONG time. And I swear it was a legitimate artice (just can't remember where). One of those quirky Stevie things that you hear once and then never again!

[dissention]

Stevie just heard it as "edge" and ran with it. It must have a certain meaning to Stevie. :)

[darklinensuit]

Originally posted by ricohv
Have you guys ever noticed this: everytime I've seen her giving the insider's scoop on that song (a la VH1 Storytellers) she talks about the dove and how thwy nest in Seguaro cactus in Arizona and the story of the two Johns, but that reallly doesn't explain the bulk of the song, especially the title! And I swear long ago I read somewhere that she said the song was actually called the "age" of seventeen, but when Tom Petty's wife Jane heard the demo and in her big southern drawl repeated the title it sounded like she said "edge" so as a little insider's joke (?) or tip of the hat to Jane (?) she renamed the song "edge of seventen". Which does seem like a weird thing to do for someone who is so protective of their art and for such a serious (aren't they all?) song.
Anyone else heard this? It might even be alluded to in the liner notes of BellaDonna (I think the article mentioned this) but I haven't actually seen those for a LONG time. And I swear it was a legitimate artice (just can't remember where). One of those quirky Stevie things that you hear once and then never again!

I might be wrong, but I don't think Jane heard the demo but rather was chatting and said she met Tom at the age of seventeen. However, with her southern accent it sounded like age, and Stevie loved the sound of it so she wrote a song using the phrase.

- Jake

[Johnny Stew]

This is what we know....

# 1. Jane Petty told Stevie that she met Tom when he was at the "age of seventeen," but Stevie misheard her, and thought she said "edge of seventeen." Thinking to herself that it sounded like a good song title.

# 2. Stevie was out of the country when she heard John Lennon had been murdered, and she was inspired to write a song about it when she returned home, perhaps seeing in John the same type of soul as that of a white-winged dove... a bird of peace.

# 3. Sometime not long after Lennon was murdered, Stevie's Uncle John also died, and Stevie was there when it happened.

So... now personally, I think the main inspiration of the song, is John Lennon. I think her uncle's death was somewhat "secondary," and doesn't really come into play until the third verse.

The first verse and all of the second, to me, seem to be talking about Lennon.

"He was no more than a baby then..." (When the Beatles first hit the scene, they were all rather young and boyishly exuberant.)

"He seemed broken-hearted... something within him." (John "carried that weight" of his mother's early death, and was always considered to be the more tempermental Beatle.)

Lennon wasn't literally seventeen when Stevie, and the rest of the world, "first laid eyes on him," but she's romanticizing his youth (and working Jane Petty's misheard comment into the song).

"Well, I went today, maybe I will go again tomorrow... Yeah, yeah... And the music there, well, it was hauntingly familiar." (Not sure *where* she was... perhaps the recording studio, perhaps her uncle's home... but that hauntingly familiar music was most likely that of Lennon and the Beatles.)

"I see you doing what I try to do for me, with the words of a poet, and the voice of a choir, and a melody... Nothing else mattered" (Lennon, of course, was a musician and a songwriter whom Stevie was in awe of. She wanted to do what he did, and that's all that mattered.)

"The clouds never expect it when it rains, and the sea changes colors, but the sea does not change." (The bridge mainly reflects the turmoil and trauma of the losses and all that they affected.)

As we move into the third verse, Stevie is reacting to the death of her Uncle. She runs out into the hallway as he's drawing his last breath, but there's no one to run to. And the "nightbird"... here symbolizing death... takes her Uncle away.

I interpret the vamp ("Well, I hear you in the morning, and I hear you at nightfall...") in a similar way to how dissention interprets it, though I think the presence she "hears" might refer again to Lennon's music, which is never gone, even though he now is.

Anyway, that's my take on it. :)
I also have personal meanings for it, which have nothing to do with John Lennon or John Nicks! :)

[strandinthewind]

Originally posted by gldstwmn
I think the "ooh" part refers to the rattle when that last breath leaves someone's body.

It and the nosie made while breathing a few minutes prior to then are called the "death rattle." I heard it in my grandmother before she died. The sitter (a large African American woman who was also a type of voodoiene (hey - it was Louisiana :laugh: )), told me that was the "death rattle" and it wouldn't be long and she would watch and guide the spirit as it left. Anyway, I think that is noise she is euphamizing. It also is the noise made by the doves in the z. catcti in Phoenix.

Great interp. Dissention!!!! Lcool:

[strandinthewind]

"The clouds never expect it when it rains, and the sea changes colors, but the sea does not change." (The bridge mainly reflects the turmoil and trauma of the losses and all that they affected.)

This oine has so much meaning to me it almost scares me. I think she is saying that although someone may appear to be very very sick (change colors if you will), they, like the sea, do not change inside. I took care of a very sick frined for a long time (they are MUCH better). But, from my experience, that line is so true it is chilling to me. Of all of her brilliant work, this is one of my favorites of all times. :cool:

[darklinensuit]

Originally posted by strandinthewind
"The clouds never expect it when it rains, and the sea changes colors, but the sea does not change." (The bridge mainly reflects the turmoil and trauma of the losses and all that they affected.)

This oine has so much meaning to me it almost scares me. I think she is saying that although someone may appear to be very very sick (change colors if you will), they, like the sea, do not change inside. I took care of a very sick frined for a long time (they are MUCH better). But, from my experience, that line is so true it is chilling to me. Of all of her brilliant work, this is one of my favorites of all times. :cool:

That's my favorite part of the song, too.

- Jake

[cliffdweller]

"He was no more...than a baby then
Well he... seemed broken hearted...
something within him
But the moment...that I first laid...
Eyes...on...him...all alone...
On the edge of...seventeen"

I always thought this was Jane Petty's take on Tom that Stevie interpreted and included in the song. Stevie said that she got the inspiration for EO17 from Jane who said she met Tom at the "age of 17" but through her thick southern drawl Stevie heard "edge." That story might be the opener and the jumping off point for the rest of the song.

[skcin]

Originally posted by strandinthewind
It and the nosie made while breathing a few minutes prior to then are called the "death rattle." I heard it in my grandmother before she died. The sitter (a large African American woman who was also a type of voodoiene (hey - it was Louisiana :laugh: )), told me that was the "death rattle" and it wouldn't be long and she would watch and guide the spirit as it left. Anyway, I think that is noise she is euphamizing. It also is the noise made by the doves in the z. catcti in Phoenix.

Great interp. Dissention!!!! Lcool:

You're right, strand, it's a well-known sound to health care workers, esp. those who work in hospitals & nursing homes. I learned about it back in nursing school, and they litereally call it the "death rattle", that's how they know a patient will pass soon.

Paula

[ricohv]

Cliffdweller-You are right, that part was about Tom. I totally forgot that part of the Tom/Jane Petty , age/edge of 17 story. Is still just seems oddly incongruous to me to start off the song with that then crypticly tell the John Lennon/departed uncle part of the story in the song. I just don't see "that there was a connection". But I guess as long as it sounds good together and appears to tell one (almost) cohesive story, then that really is what Stevie is the master of: putting fragmented parts of her personal life into stories/poems/songs that somehow touch people and make them feel like they understand or they relate. The quirky part of that is that most of the stuff they think they are relating to is probably not what the song is really about (as seen by this dissection of Edge of 17). But even if you don't get a literal interpretation from the words you certainly pick up the underlying feeling: the urgency and angst of Edge of 17, the winsome nostalgia and loss fealt in Gypsy, etc.).
Final thought RE: all these posts about the "death rattle" (Ewwww!), somehow I just cannot imagine Stevie incorporating this graphic & gruesome death sound (even cloaked in her own softer imagery) into a song. I think if she read all that she would recoil in the graphicness of that and have some totally different explanation, JMO!
Ricoh

[Jason T.]

Don't judge me!

I, on first listen, thought it was about being seventeen and fixing to turn eighteen...but being attracted to someone who was still a minor...is that just me? So there...again, don't judge me! I'm only seventeen myself. :D

[strandinthewind]

Originally posted by Jason T.
Don't judge me!

I, on first listen, thought it was about being seventeen and fixing to turn eighteen...but being attracted to someone who was still a minor...is that just me? So there...again, don't judge me! I'm only seventeen myself. :D

I did too :laugh: So many of songs are grasped by me only after delving into them!!!! AND I had no internet in 1981 :laugh:

[SpyNote]

I think the "clouds next expect it" passage represent how we are never prepared for radical change, like a loved one suddenly passing. The sea appears to represent the strongest element for Stevie, so it could symbolize her uncle in this case, a constant in her life (connecting what she sings about the sea in Bombay Sapphires). I also think the sea is metaphorical for Stevie's life in general...rocking, volatile, calm and unchanging in routine (what I think she means by "the sea doesn't change").

I don't quite get the last line of the last verse... "I'm a few years older than you." That couldn't possibly represent either John Lennon or her uncle, who were both considerably older than Stevie.

[gldstwmn]

Originally posted by SpyNote

I don't quite get the last line of the last verse... "I'm a few years older than you." That couldn't possibly represent either John Lennon or her uncle, who were both considerably older than Stevie.

I always thought that part referred to Jimmy Iovine along with the "when I see you doing what I try to do for me..." lines.

[strandinthewind]

Originally posted by gldstwmn
I always thought that part referred to Jimmy Iovine along with the "when I see you doing what I try to do for me..." lines.

Yea, I sort of thought that to as well as John Lennon with his voice of a chior. But, it kind of makes more sense for Jimmy because Stevie said she hired him to have the "Because the Night" huge sound. Oh Stevie and her forthright vagueness :laugh:

[SpyNote]

Originally posted by gldstwmn
I always thought that part referred to Jimmy Iovine along with the "when I see you doing what I try to do for me..." lines.

I never thought about Jimmy Iovine. But yeah, that makes sense too.

Ever notice that the song has a lot of romantic overtones, even though it deals with some pretty serious stuff? When Stevie sings "my love", it's usually about a lover.

[gldstwmn]

Originally posted by SpyNote
I never thought about Jimmy Iovine. But yeah, that makes sense too.

Ever notice that the song has a lot of romantic overtones, even though it deals with some pretty serious stuff? When Stevie sings "my love", it's usually about a lover.

Yes. There is a lot going on in that song, which was porbably pretty reflective of her life at that time. I never could figure out what the "sometimes to be near you is to be unable to hear you" line was about though.

[strandinthewind]

Originally posted by gldstwmn
Yes. There is a lot going on in that song, which was porbably pretty reflective of her life at that time. I never could figure out what the "sometimes to be near you is to be unable to hear you" line was about though.

I always took that line to mean you can be around someone for long time, but never really know them. But, once again and to quote the lovely and very talented CM, "sometimes you just wonder what the hell she is taking about . . . " :laugh: