Defending Stevie

[Siri Ruane]

I've been in many arguments concerning Stevie and the witch rumor.... and havent been doing very well.
Does anyone have any tips?

[Sorcerer386]

My only tip would be just to laugh along with them. People are probably doing it to you just to get you mad. Either that or they are so stupid they're not even worth your time.

[gypsysara]

I personally try not to let their mumbo-jumbo bother me. After all WE know the "real truth", just because they cant shouldnt concern you.

Besides, what if she was a witch? Is it really THAT bad? I mean, sure there is bad magic but that = bad karma. Stevie has good karma.

[tamaraluvsFM]

Originally posted by gypsysara
I personally try not to let their mumbo-jumbo bother me. After all WE know the "real truth", just because they cant shouldnt concern you.
Besides, what if she was a witch? Is it really THAT bad? I mean, sure there is bad magic but that = bad karma. Stevie has good karma.



Nicely put! I say what she says.....:D

Tamara:wavey:

[strandinthewind]

Although this conversation will continue until the end of time, I just think it is so funny that not only has she repeatedly and vehemently denied it every source interviewed who knows her has denied it. Yet, it persists! Oh Well!

[Bella Figura]

Hi Siri, in the end, your best bet is to ignore/avoid those arguements especially if you or your friends are devout Christians...people are going to believe what they want to believe and you really have no concrete proof that Stevie is or is not a witch so you're in a no-win situation.

Just be confident in yourself and don't let other people drag you down with their teasing :wavey:

[gypsysara]

Strand, I think though in ONE instance in the 70's she was quoted as saying she was a witch.

In fact here, I got this from inherownwords.com

http://www.inherownwords.com/witches.htm


(DJ: You used to think you were a witch. ) Yes
Stevie Nicks, WEGQ FM Eagle 93.7 - May 21, 1998

That could have contributed to some of the rumours out there.

[strandinthewind]

I think I remember that interview and they were told her to say yes to the following five questions. So, it was a joke like thing. It was a live radio thing, so you could tell. But, that was awhile back (1998) and my memory is not as good as it used to be. :laugh:

[Siri Ruane]

Thanks for your says, guys. I'll try to use it.

Either that or they are so stupid they're not even worth your time.

Yeah, I know that. I've dissed a lot of friends in my life because of that bit of information.

[Bella Figura]

Just a little irony, a Simpson's rerun I was watching last night was the Halloween special that referenced Harry Potter and has Mr Burns saying about Lisa: "She has more wickedy-witch than Stevie Nicks"

so it looks like Stevie's witchy image is firmly cemented into American pop culture...:nod:

[flyfirefly]

Well, that and people tend to refer to her as the "Witch"

I think when she's talking about magic, in many of those quotes, she's not talking about magick per se, but an individual's magic or mysticism or mystery about themselves that she's so fond of. Seems like it can be taken both ways.

I think she plays into it though--all the clothes and the like, but she sort of likes the good witch image there.

[tommer]

i must say this discussion puzzles me a bit, how many people are there out there who really believe in the existance of witches, i thought people stopped burning them somewhere in the 18th century :eek: are these people also belive in the existence of elves, fairies, trolls and those kinda stuff???

[DrummerDeanna]

Originally posted by flyfirefly
Well, that and people tend to refer to her as the "Witch"




Yep...I think it was on the top 100 women of Rock or somethine when Grace Slick says, in regards to Stevie, "Oh the witch....I love her..." Not really a direct quote as it's been years since I've seen that...but it was something to that effect.

[Bella Figura]

"oh, the witch, the magic witch, I love her" Grace Slick

I love that quote but you can't really tell if Grace is being sarcastic or complimentary...

Tommer, there's a kinda of New Age religious vibe in the States since the mid-90's which has people practicing at being good witches using practical magic like wishcasting, candle/inscense burning and creative visualtization/prayers/chanting. The occult has always had a strong fascination for the American Psyche...the emergence of occultism popularity in the US seems to be timed with each new century, prior to this new wave, occultism was quite popular at the turn of the 19th century...

Stevie was a little bit before her time, writing Rhiannon and it's related demos during the 70's...well, Stevie and Ouji boards :lol:

[Moon Brother]

Speaking from my own personal experience, as a practicing Wiccan here in San Francisco. I, too, find this topic a bit puzzling with regard to how it's being treated.
Yes, I also believe in the existence of Witches as well. We are human and we are here in the modern age living amongst you paying taxes like everybody else. It is a confirmed and celebrated religion practiced the world over, not a resurgence or a wave or fad. It has been practiced devoutly for thousands of years, long before Christianity squelched it out. We modern Wiccans, as we preferred to be called, have always been quiet and respectful which is the true nature of the Wiccan way. The term: "Witch", now, is simply a nickname for one another. We are a proud lot, as the religion is filled with natures beauty and of how we all can listen to her spirit and pay tribute even in some small way.

As for Stevie, we Wiccans discuss at great length as to why she has so recently put Witches in such a bad light. By denying it to the degree, that it makes her look like she has something to hide or that she would rather be caught dead than confess, if you will, to being a Witch. The truth of the matter is I don't understand why she has excluded such a large part of her fan base by making these remarks. It may surprise you to know how many Wiccans are buying Stevie's records!

Though, It wasn't too long ago that a crazed fan accused her of being the "Good Witch" that could cure him of his homosexuality, and to that end she had to file a restraining order against this individual. As of late she told a fan in an interview to "get a life" when asked if she was a Witch.
Some Wiccans I know have stopped listening to her completely after years of being hard core fans, back in the days when she wholly embraced us for being...well...Witches, due to the changes in her attitude toward even admitting to being a Witch! There are occasions even still where she seems to flip flop back and forth on both sides of the broomstick!

Though I'm beginning to see some light being shed on the reason why she would deny these rumours, especially as she becomes more and more popular with people. It also confirms what my old girlfriend believed about Stevie and her lifestyle.
That fact is, and it has been debated amongst my circles, that if she admitted tomorrow that she was a Witch, her career would be over, completely and utterly OVER! Goodbye middle America! Goodbye record sales and everything that comes with that. She would be completely DIXIE CHICKED out of the music biz. The general public is still living in the "Dark Ages". Some of Stevie's fans are content with the idea that Stevie is only pretending to be something she is not. Some of Stevie's fans are also very disturbed by the idea that she is pretending to be someone she isn't as well!

I, for one, would be thrilled if Stevie admitted to being a Witch/Wiccan. And that she had a coven in the Hollywood hills, as was rumoured so many years ago, that Lori Nicks and Sharon Celani were also apart of. That each one of her songs has a direct connection with the mystical, or has magickal properties. That she actually does intervene with the dead and they assist her to better the world and her destiny!
That the reason she wears black most of the time on stage these days is so that it will protect her, as it is a protective color. That one day she will finally record that one great "Witchy" album chock full of artwork and photos dedicated to her religion and explaining everything as it was meant to be!

There is always the wish that remains, where we all live in a world where it was o.k to be different, to be a minority, to believe that there is real magick, and "...elves, fairies, trolls, and those kinda stuff" ~ but then...does not the real existence of these myths live in every one of us, on all kinds of levels?

As for myself I will always love Stevie, whatever "WITCH" Stevie she happens to be!

Life, Love, and Magick~ to those who believe ~
Tommy
:wavey:

"I'm not make believe then, I'm not make believe now. I didn't understand then, but I understand now..." Stevie Nicks

[tommer]

Originally posted by Bella Figura

Tommer, there's a kinda of New Age religious vibe in the States since the mid-90's which has people practicing at being good witches using practical magic like wishcasting, candle/inscense burning and creative visualtization/prayers/chanting. The occult has always had a strong fascination for the American Psyche...the emergence of occultism popularity in the US seems to be timed with each new century, prior to this new wave, occultism was quite popular at the turn of the 19th century...

that's not witchcraft... in fact my own mom is a shaman, she does channeling, reiki, bach flower remedies and everything, it doesn't make her a witch... she's refared to as a "healer". witches uses broomsticks and she rides a bike.

[Bella Figura]

I am a student of history and always find connections between modern culture and what has gone before...it's all been done before... :)

there is not hard definition of the term "witch" at this point in our modern culture:
to some: she will always be the hag flying around on her broom and filling her cauldron to cast misfortune on humankind. she undermines and threatens Christianity and conservative society.

to some: she is Samantha, Sabrina, Willow or one of the Charmed Ones from tv and books, using her physical magic to help humankind while at the same time being misunderstood by society. she is the mysterious and intrigueing outsider, the kind stranger.

to others: she is a spiritual connection to the unknown realms and ideas which is fast diminishing in our modern scientific society. She manifests herself in the spiritual magic of the Wiccan practice as a shadow of possibility if humankind could find a way to leave in peace with itself and the planet.

and because of these variances in definition, different perceptions exist for different discussions. This subject has been brought up several times on this board. And sometimes being a witch has been positive and sometimes being a witch has been negative.

but the question remains the same: How do you defend Stevie from those who accuse her of being a witch??? and the answer in the end is that you don't, you have to believe in yourself and your beliefs and that becomes the answer.

for Tommy, Stevie is the closet Wiccan...

for me, she is my favorite songwriter who uses the Good Witch persona to enhance her image. I personally don't think she is a practicing Wiccan. I believe she has a strong eclectic spiritual system with elements of both Christianity and paganism. but I don't know for sure...

and to others...well that's for them to decide

[seeker007nmss]

So she is a witch. Whats the big deal? If someone accuses her of it, look them straight in the eye and say "Maybe she is. What's your point? You act like its a bad thing." and if they keep it up, give them the monty python response that you will "turn them into a gnewt" or say "nee" to them.


:D

[Tango]

Obviously it does to some people. But it's sort of pointless to argue about it, right up there with the number of angels that dance on the head of a pin, isn't it? Only Stevie can state what her beliefs are.

As Andrew Ramsay once said, "Never reason from what you do not know. If you do, you will soon believe what is utterly against reason." ;)

[Moon Brother]

Tommer,
Your Mom sounds like an amazing and fascinating woman, who, I am sure, is not prone to flying broomsticks, but may do some smudging with sage from time to time! :)

There seems to be some misconceptions about the phenomenon of flying on broomsticks. Visions of Margaret Hamiltons' character, the Wicked Witch of the West from "The Wizard of Oz", flying around on her broomstick, circling the skies pop into our heads.
Though, what most people don't know is that they were indeed tools used for flying, but not in the literal gravity defying sense.
Witches used broomsticks to aid them in "astral travel" or astral projections, a kind of out-of-body experience. They're also used in rituals to dispell any negative energies, or to clear a space or home. A kind of psychic "Feng Shui" if you will.

Typically, we experience astral travel through a very heightened state of meditation, or in the first and last hours of sleep. The flying of broomsticks, also, does have sexual implications. Witches from the days of yore, while in attendance on a Sabbat night who were convening used their broomsticks to heighten their experience with the aid of herbal infusions or ointments, also known as "flying ointments", which were rubbed onto the broomstick or absorbed topically to the skin (usually, the former causing the latter).

These salves were made from recipes long since forgotten and have been shrouded in myth. The herbs had hallucinogenic properties that evoked the sensations of fur growing, feathers developing, vertigo and flight which were potent inspiration for psychonautical voyages. These traditional herbal hallucinogens were also the precursor to LSD-25 created in 1943.

The ointment used on the broomstick composed of key ingredients of various combinations of: Thornapple (Datura stramonium), Henbane (Hyoscyamus Niger), Mandrake (Mandragora), Ergot (Claviceps purpurea), Monkshood (Aconitum napellus), ...and, of course, Deadly Nightshade ~ otherwise known as Atropa Belladonna

This recipe produced their effects largely due to the drugs: hyosyamine, scopolamine, and atropine within the mixtures.

Even toxic amphibians were included among others! :eek:

So the Witches journey of flight was never actually through space, but through the hallucinatory landscapes of their own minds with magickal intoxicants that could free the soul!

With respect to the Women who have been victims to the conquests of a Patriarchal society during the 16th, 17th, and 18th centuries. Women, because of their biological role as creators and primary childcare providers, tend to preserve the ancient shamanism, the ancient herbal medicine, as an aspect of their psychic wholeness, their evolutionary birthright. Women will always remember pre-industrial pharmocoshamanism more naturally, preserve it more easily, and thus, so became the last target of cultural genocide ~ hence the Inquisition, which many women, particularly midwives, became the overwhelming majority of its victims.

The origins of Witchcraft belong to an ancient heritage reaching far back into prehistory and the worship of the Goddess. Before written language, domestication, and agriculture, when wild Dionysus reigned, Witches were the traditional midwives, herbalists, healers, and oracles of village and tribe. Witches and Shamans were one and the same, they follow the same traditions and laws of nature.

Tommer, I just remembered why your comment was so funny to me, about your Mom and the broomstick/bike. It was actually a scene out the "The Wizard Of Oz" when Margaret Hamiltons' character, Miss Gulch, is seen pedaling away grimly on her bicycle, and then is transformed wildly into the Wicked Witch of the West flying on her broomstick cackling away into the night! It's classic! :laugh:

Of course, there is no connection or implications here! :D

I would also like to make "crystal" clear that I do not secretly wait, nor long and hope for the day when or if Stevie admits to being a supposed Witch/Wiccan.
I can only speculate as to why she would feel so defensive about the subject, and why she feels she couldn't admit to being a Witch/Wiccan, especially since she has confessed to much more controversial affairs in her life! Could it simply be that people would think that she was stupid, crazy, or even HIGH?
I could never presume anyone was in the closet ~ for any reason, since I believe, wholly, that each one of us travels at our own rate of speed in the universe.

Life, Love, and Magick~ ...and don't fly your broomsticks without a license!
Tommy
:wavey:

"I'm not make believe then, I'm not make believe now. I didn't understand then, but I understand now..." Stevie Nicks
"You are in love with...and I'm ready to sail ~ It's just a feeling... ...whoa...ooooh...sort of captures your soul...Belladonna..." Stevie Nicks

[Crown]

Just say that a witch's voice is way screechier than Stevie's.

[belladonna.]

Originally posted by Moon Brother

It may surprise you to know how many Wiccans are buying Stevie's records!

actually, it doesnt surprise me at all!!



That fact is, and it has been debated amongst my circles, that if she admitted tomorrow that she was a Witch, her career would be over, completely and utterly OVER! Goodbye middle America! Goodbye record sales and everything that comes with that. She would be completely DIXIE CHICKED out of the music biz.

do you really think so? i never thought about that. the lead singer of godsmack is wiccan, & hes pretty outspoken about it, & it hasnt hurt them or their sales any...do you think its just because shes a different kind of music?

ive read a lot about wicca, & it really is just another religion. and a very peaceful, positive one at that. who cares if stevies a witch? jeez, its not like shes worshipping the devil or anything. i know i can think of a lot worse things than a religion that holds nature in the very highest regard.

[strandinthewind]

Originally posted by Crown
Just say that a witch's voice is way screechier than Stevie's.


Think Smile at You AAAAAAHHHHHHHHHH AAAAAAAAHHHHHHH HAAAAAAAAAA

(just joking)

also, this whole discussion reminds me of the sitcom "Bewitched" episode where Sam convinces the Witches Council that Darren (a/k/a Dum Dum :] ) can give witches a positive ad campaign right before Halloween and the Dum Dum in the meantime is strating an ad featuring the stereotypical had/witch in a Halloween promotion! Needless to say a big bruhaha (sp?) results, but gets worked out in the end - Oh the 60's!!!!!

:D

[sparky]

Oh, man. I have found that the people who say these things are so idiotic they don't deserve a response. Other than one of my favorite stock responses to idiots, which is "Shut your hole."

Said people are so myopic, and so superstitious that simple logic will evade them. I can't be bothered, generally. Such a comment usually affirms my suspicion that an individual is a speed bump and not worth the time.

Interesting discussion though. Tommy, you are a regular Camille Paglia. Fascinating information you have. You know your stuff.

[Sarah]

I've been in this argument a few times. I just play dumb and drop the big, "I dunno.. " bomb.

IMO, "witch" is a stupid word. What do you MEAN by witch? Wiccans aren't witches, Wiccans are Wiccans. My Wiccan friends don't refer to themselves as witches... at least not seriously.. and they definitely aren't all blacked up and crescent mooned out. ..at least not all the time. ;)

Private life is private life.. and whether she's hiding something because she doesn't want to alienate part of her fan base.. well, can you blame her? I see nothing wrong with having your own choice of religion - some people believe that the only choices are like, Methodist, Presbyterian, Baptist, 7th Day Adventist, Lutheran, etc. I just don't believe that.. but then, I'm no Billy Graham.

I like to think that Stevie's own personal convictions are bigger than Christianity and Wicca. I think that she probably has her own little customized belief system that gets her through every day life, and it's probably a melting pot of a lot of little things. She doesn't seem "closed minded" like a lot of strict Christians (no offense to anyone at all.. I'm talking Bible Beaters like my Mother.) but she doesn't APPEAR to have like.. a set of rules she abides by. She's talked about magic, karma, auras.. she covers everything.

I like that.


Sarah

[FiercestCalmSea]

I like to think that Stevie's own personal convictions are bigger than Christianity and Wicca. I think that she probably has her own little customized belief system that gets her through every day life, and it's probably a melting pot of a lot of little things. She doesn't seem "closed minded" like a lot of strict Christians (no offense to anyone at all.. I'm talking Bible Beaters like my Mother.) but she doesn't APPEAR to have like.. a set of rules she abides by. She's talked about magic, karma, auras.. she covers everything.


THANK YOU..i totally agree...well said..

[tamaraluvsFM]

Well it was nice to see Stevie once again address the "witch" thing on VH1 today. She addressed the fact that many thought she was a witch because she wore her black flowing dress. Her comment was, and I am sure most women feel this way....
"black makes you look skinny"
Amen sister! That has been my motto since high school!!

Tamara:wavey:

[Sarah]

LOL. I love it. How smart ass is THAT?

I just think Stevie is so freakin' cute.

[cliffdweller]

Originally posted by Moon Brother
Tommer,
Your Mom sounds like an amazing and fascinating woman, who, I am sure, is not prone to flying broomsticks, but may do some smudging with sage from time to time! :)

There seems to be some misconceptions about the phenomenon of flying on broomsticks. Visions of Margaret Hamiltons' character, the Wicked Witch of the West from "The Wizard of Oz", flying around on her broomstick, circling the skies pop into our heads.
Though, what most people don't know is that they were indeed tools used for flying, but not in the literal gravity defying sense.
Witches used broomsticks to aid them in "astral travel" or astral projections, a kind of out-of-body experience. They're also used in rituals to dispell any negative energies, or to clear a space or home. A kind of psychic "Feng Shui" if you will.

Typically, we experience astral travel through a very heightened state of meditation, or in the first and last hours of sleep. The flying of broomsticks, also, does have sexual implications. Witches from the days of yore, while in attendance on a Sabbat night who were convening used their broomsticks to heighten their experience with the aid of herbal infusions or ointments, also known as "flying ointments", which were rubbed onto the broomstick or absorbed topically to the skin (usually, the former causing the latter).

These salves were made from recipes long since forgotten and have been shrouded in myth. The herbs had hallucinogenic properties that evoked the sensations of fur growing, feathers developing, vertigo and flight which were potent inspiration for psychonautical voyages. These traditional herbal hallucinogens were also the precursor to LSD-25 created in 1943.

The ointment used on the broomstick composed of key ingredients of various combinations of: Thornapple (Datura stramonium), Henbane (Hyoscyamus Niger), Mandrake (Mandragora), Ergot (Claviceps purpurea), Monkshood (Aconitum napellus), ...and, of course, Deadly Nightshade ~ otherwise known as Atropa Belladonna

This recipe produced their effects largely due to the drugs: hyosyamine, scopolamine, and atropine within the mixtures.

Even toxic amphibians were included among others! :eek:

So the Witches journey of flight was never actually through space, but through the hallucinatory landscapes of their own minds with magickal intoxicants that could free the soul!

With respect to the Women who have been victims to the conquests of a Patriarchal society during the 16th, 17th, and 18th centuries. Women, because of their biological role as creators and primary childcare providers, tend to preserve the ancient shamanism, the ancient herbal medicine, as an aspect of their psychic wholeness, their evolutionary birthright. Women will always remember pre-industrial pharmocoshamanism more naturally, preserve it more easily, and thus, so became the last target of cultural genocide ~ hence the Inquisition, which many women, particularly midwives, became the overwhelming majority of its victims.

The origins of Witchcraft belong to an ancient heritage reaching far back into prehistory and the worship of the Goddess. Before written language, domestication, and agriculture, when wild Dionysus reigned, Witches were the traditional midwives, herbalists, healers, and oracles of village and tribe. Witches and Shamans were one and the same, they follow the same traditions and laws of nature.

Tommer, I just remembered why your comment was so funny to me, about your Mom and the broomstick/bike. It was actually a scene out the "The Wizard Of Oz" when Margaret Hamiltons' character, Miss Gulch, is seen pedaling away grimly on her bicycle, and then is transformed wildly into the Wicked Witch of the West flying on her broomstick cackling away into the night! It's classic! :laugh:

Of course, there is no connection or implications here! :D

I would also like to make "crystal" clear that I do not secretly wait, nor long and hope for the day when or if Stevie admits to being a supposed Witch/Wiccan.
I can only speculate as to why she would feel so defensive about the subject, and why she feels she couldn't admit to being a Witch/Wiccan, especially since she has confessed to much more controversial affairs in her life! Could it simply be that people would think that she was stupid, crazy, or even HIGH?
I could never presume anyone was in the closet ~ for any reason, since I believe, wholly, that each one of us travels at our own rate of speed in the universe.

Life, Love, and Magick~ ...and don't fly your broomsticks without a license!
Tommy
:wavey:

"witches" were not the only ones using herbal salves, potions and magic gems. Medieval, Christian holy women also used them, for example, Hildegard Von Bingen. Paganism and Christianity have been syncretically linked since the Middle Ages; witches or visionaries? It all depends on what is said about you after you die, what kind of press you get at your funeral.

[Moon Brother]

Originally posted by cliffdweller
"witches" were not the only ones using herbal salves, potions and magic gems. Medieval, Christian holy women also used them, for example, Hildegard Von Bingen. Paganism and Christianity have been syncretically linked since the Middle Ages; witches or visionaries? It all depends on what is said about you after you die, what kind of press you get at your funeral.


Aaahhh yes ~ Hildegard Von Bingen,
the "Sybil of the Rhine", the great GodMother of Pantheism and great Grand Daughter of theology! :nod:

It's interesting that you've mentioned her. I see strange similarities between Hildegard and Stevie with respect to their belief systems, and also with the fact that they both are prolific musicians with their mystical writings.

Stevie, also, believed she was a monk in a previous lifetime!

~ and what's really bizarre to me is the similarities in both of their artwork. My favorite painting of Hildegard's is her "Nine Ranks Of Angels" it's completely mandalic, in what seems to be a homage to the nine muses, (Calliope, Clio, Euterpe, Melpomene, Terpischore, Erato, Polyhymnia, Urania, and Thalia) who were challenged in song and then punished and turned into magpies, doomed to sing in a monotonous repetition for all eternity.

Such was the basis for most of Hildegards music, as it was written in the theme of Gregorian chant music. Wierd! :eek:

My favorite quote from Hildegard seems so Stevie as well ~ ~ ~

"Since birds are lifted by their feathers into the air, and since they dwell everywhere in the air, they were thus created and positioned in order that the soul, with them, might feel and know the things that should be known."

...that's very Stevie...if she was somewhat of a scientist, that is!;)

Life, Love and Magick~
Tommy :wavey:

" The soul often sees the future by means of its prophetic powers." Hildegard Von Bingen "Now, here I go again, I see some crystal visions ~ I keep my visions to myself..." Stevie Nicks

[Jason T.]

My mother always argues with me about Stevie being a witch (just to get me upset). But then I thought to myself "Stevie don't seem to care that much about the "Witch-image", if anything, she somewhat embraces it." Plus, I think that is the signature Stevie image that we all know and love.